First time playing Germany

[ABWorsham4]

I’ll play Germany during our next upcoming match this month. I would like to hear your favorite time tested strategies and theories regarding the German-Italian player?

[SubmersedElk]

Kill Russia. Don’t get distracted.

[KaLeu]

Here’s what I like to do: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36116.msg1423051#msg1423051
I used to buy one sub and 6 artillery, but it has the disadvantage that it sends a very clear message across that Germany will attack Russia (‘Barbarossa’) and not the UK (‘Sea Lion’). So I’m thinking of buying maybe only 3 artillery and saving 12 just to keep the Allies in the dark a bit more. I do like to buy some artillery G1 though: they’re very useful in the east but they move slowly.

And Young Grasshopper’s strategy video’s are really good, but I can’t find the one for Germany right now.

[Private-Panic]

I have played G a few times and always focus on getting to Moscow, presumably encouraged by the fact that in my first ever game I succeeded in that task and so know it is do-able. As I have improved I have also learned to make those Italian can-openers ever more effective in getting me there.

Typically I end up going via the northern route, but have noted posts by others recommending the southern one. No doubt my opponents are pushing me north by their own placements.

I do fall into the trap of not threatening sea lion, which is a problem. Some have recommended holding ipcs in the bank G1 to leave the sea lion option open, which has merit. But I also want to get artillery into position. Perhaps HK’s compromise proposal will offer the best combination - something I might try in the future. Or is it one of SE’s “distractions”?!

Have just started my first game as the allies and been surprised by a G1 purchase of an AC, DD & Sub for sz 112. As UK I am already feeling nervous! Even though I believe sea lion can only work if I fail to react to that danger, but my opponent is so much more experienced than I am.

[Witt]

PP is talking about me, Worsham.
I can’t not buy CV, DD and TT. I like to protect Gib and keep the Americans worried about losing his European fleet, if I J2.
Barbarossa is the best way to win in Europe and Itaky can play its part, with Mech amd a Bomber to can open.

[SubmersedElk]

@Private:

Have just started my first game as the allies and been surprised by a G1 purchase of an AC, DD & Sub for sz 112. As UK I am already feeling nervous! Even though I believe sea lion can only work if I fail to react to that danger, but my opponent is so much more experienced than I am.

AC/DD/sub is a solid G1 buy even if he has no intention of doing Sealion. It cements the dominance of the German navy in the North Sea and forces UK to invest most of his first round buy into units that won’t see actual action until many rounds later.

Personally though I’ve stopped buying the DD and sub and just buy the AC, holding onto the extra IPC helps to keep opponents guessing, and you can always buy the DD/sub on G2 if you really want to yet preserve the option of spending that capital on other things, such as land units to attack Russia, or on transports.

[ABWorsham4]

Do many of you attack Russia before the 4th round? Before any Eastern infantry can reinforce Moscow?

You guys are my General Staff. I would love your thoughts and beliefs.

[StuckTojo]

Take advantage of G’s full three rounds of peace with USSR. Each of those rounds buy a bomber and a stack of infantry and just start pressing everything towards what will be the Russian front.  Also make sure you also establish a small Italian presence there as well.

[Boondock]

@ABWorsham:

Do many of you attack Russia before the 4th round?

I like to hit Russia on G2. Overall, I think it’s key for the Axis to pick a strategy early and stick with it at maximum effort.

[ColonelCarter]

I also prefer the G2 attack, it allows you to split the Russian defense better than a G3 attack. I also like going north of the Pripet Marshes so you can force the Russians back into Moscow by going to Smolensk if they stack Bryansk. If you can’t take Moscow in a reasonable time frame you can still go south after that to grab the extra NO money.

[Private-Panic]

Have tried both G2 & G3. I think it depends on how you leave G’s land forces at the end of G1. Avoiding AA fire G1 (as recommended by many) makes it harder for G to have land unit offensive capability on its eastern front G2.

[Young Grasshopper]

@SubmersedElk:

Kill Russia. Don’t get distracted.

I love this comment.

[Private-Panic]

In addition to what I said before re G2 vs G3 G air can do a lot in the Med G2

[Don Bosch]

AC/DD/sub is a solid G1 buy even if he has no intention of doing Sealion. It cements the dominance of the German navy in the North Sea and forces UK to invest most of his first round buy into units that won’t see actual action until many rounds later.

I also like this purchase. This allows you to attack Russia G2 and take out the Russian sub wich in most cases will be in SZ 111, 112, 124 or 125. The new sub goes to SZ 125 to take away the NO for Russia. Also take out the Russian cruiser so it can’t block an amphibious assault.

G2 i purchase two transports so i have the option to land 6 land units in Leningrad G3.

If you keep your fleet in the Baltic sea, you can use these 3 transports to reinforce Norway, Finland, Leningrad, Baltic states etc. a fleet with a few transports is allways usefull.

[taamvan]

Strategies are very long winded to lay out, here are some straight up “tricks”

When you buy the Carrier (and its a solid buy), you can place it in SZ 112.  SZ 112 is protected by an airbase, and any fighters/tacticals (up to the limit of 2) that could have landed their non-combat move in SZ 112 are allowed to land on the carrier, making for up to 5 scramblers (as well as a cruiser and a battleship–all this stuff can get to SZ 112 on the first turn and start your sea stack).

When you end your first turn, you can land fighters (or tacticals) on Rome, who can scramble in defense of the Italian Fleet in SZ 97.  Losing the Italian Airforce is crippling; if you intend to scramble, do it with German planes instead.

When you end your first turn, you can land a fighter in Tobruk.  This makes attacking Tobruk unappealing.

Germany always goes before Italy.  Mix their troops together to get free leapfrogs.

Italy always goes after Germany, but since there are no other Allies (besides france) between you and Germany, effectively you go BEFORE Germany.  This means you can take a territory on land with your Italians, then land all your planes and or stacks there a few minutes later.  This is huge because it prevents screens from stopping your progress and allows your Italians to screen/protect/lead the way for your much bigger german stacks.

Good Luck Buddy

[Stalingradski]

Yes to nearly everything said above.

But I’d challenge you to take it one step further than thinking about specific purchases - think about how those purchases can provide flexibility, afford you to take attacks of opportunity, and keep your opponent off balance. The units follow the philosophy, not the other way around.

So a purchase of a CV/DD/ Sub is about much more than just the math… it is about Germany’s ability to project power in a variety of directions. G2 can be a Gibraltar strike, you can hit Morocco, you can bend to the other side of the UK, hit Scotland, and convoy raid up to 8 IPCs… and keep doing it until the UK forces you off the spot. You could go into the Baltic. On G3, you could flex back up to 112 if you own Gibraltar… or, you could go into the Med to support Italy. It goes on and on.

So take the same approach on land… what buys you the most flexibility? Certainly not infantry or artillery, though they’re necessary at some volume. Instead, make sure to diversify. An example of a potential G2 purchase for me might be a bomber, destroyer, transport, armor, five mech infantry, five infantry. A few infantry to defend the coast, a few infantry to serve as fodder in the fight for Moscow, and a whole bunch of versatile mechanized forces to form an armored fist on the front.

If you keep diversifying, you find yourself capable of handling just about anything the Allies throw at you, and you can throttle Russia at your leisure. If you become too monolithic, too predictable, it allows the Allied player to easily see your weakness and exploit it.

[Charles de Gaulle]

My preference is to always build a fleet G1 and G2.  Carriers, destroyers, transports, and subs are all great for threatening Sea lion the transports are good for Barberossa and the fleet for the US.  Simultaneously you are threatening the UK Russia and making it harder for the US. Always give yourself the sea lion option bombing London is essential. Russia is your main goal most of the time but don’t ignore the oncoming Allied hordes. Help out Italy as if you don’t they get destroyed in everywhere but Italy.  Make sure you get your NOs in Russia as fast as possible after attacking. Attack G2 3 or 4. It depends upon what the UK is doing. Good luck! Germany is tough to win with but very fun!

de Gaulle

[Spendo02]

This is my standard Germany opener WITHOUT an Allied Bid.

Purchase:
1 Carrier
1 Destroyer
1 Sub

Combat:
Normandy - 96% Odds, Avg 3 Units Remain (1 INF, 2 ART)
2 INF (Holland)
2 ART (Holland)

France - 98% Odds, Avg 8 Units Remain (1 TAC, 6 ARM, 1 MECH)
2 INF (Holland)
3 INF (WGr)
4 MECH (WGr)
1 ART (WGr)
3 ARM (Holland)
3 ARM (GSGr)
1 TAC (Poland)
Yugoslavia - 100% Odds, 13 Units Remain (7 INF, 2 ART, 3 ARM, 1 FTR)
6 INF (GSGr)
2 INF (Hungary)
1 INF (Romania)
2 ART (GSGr)
3 ARM (Poland, Hungary & Romania)
1 FTR (Hungary)

SZ110 - 100% Odds No Scramble, 96% Odds Full Scramble; 8/5 Units Remain Depending on Scramble
1 SS (SZ 108)
1 SS (SZ 103)
1 BB (SZ 113)
1 FTR (Holland)
2 FTR (WGr)
3 TAC (WGr)
*Note - Retreat BB to SZ 112 if you sink all ships and only UK/French aircraft remain

SZ111 - 99% No Scramble, 85% Scramble; 4/3 Units Remain Depending on Scramble
1 SS (SZ 118)
1 SS (SZ 124)
1 FTR (Norway)
1 TAC (Germany - Land on CV you bought)
2 SB (Germany)

SZ105 - 40%
1 SS (SZ 117)

Non-Combat:
Finland
1 INF (Norway)
Place 4 INF
Bulgaria
1 INF (Romania)
Place 4 INF

SZ112
1 FTR (SZ 111)
1 TAC (SZ 111)
1 CR (SZ 114)
1 TT (SZ 114)
Move 2 INF (Denmark) -> Norway
*You may lose FTR/TAC in SZ 111.  See note below for Western Germany Aircraft Options.

Southern Italy
1 FTR (Yugoslavia)
*Enables additional scramble option for Italy if UK attacks SZ 97

Western Germany
1 TAC (France)
3 FTR (SZ 110)
3 TAC (SZ 110)
2 SB (SZ 111)
_*Note these are maximum options assuming perfect outcomes in the above battles.  There will be less aircraft here than this - but this is where the remaining aircraft should go.  The lone exception being to load the CV you will place with Aircraft in the case you lose them in the battle in SZ111. _

Place Units:
1 CV (SZ 112)
1 DD (SZ 112)
1 SS (SZ 112)
*Land FTR and TAC in SZ 111 on CV

Collect Income:
70 IPC

Round 2

Purchase:
10 ARM
2 INF
1 ART

It is hard to script past G1 as there are so many alternative scenarios, but let me give you some options from here.

1. Take 2 INF from Norway and send your fleet to Gibraltar if left undefended.  This was the purpose of attacking the DD/TT in SZ 105 at the 40% odds - to prevent the UK from shipping Canadian units there.  It is unlikely the UK will send INF from Scotland/UK to Gib with a Sea Lion Threat, so winning that 40% battle and the Allies not defending Gib could yield Italy 5 IPC assuming Italy took Greece and S.France in the first round (National Objective).

2. Sink Allied ships in the Med with your remaining aircraft from Western Germany.  Again provides Italy with another potential 5 IPC bonus from a National Objective.  Italy making an additional 10 IPC total equates to an additional MEC and ARM for Italian can-openers in Russia later on.  A good investment for Germany in Round 2.  Side note, don’t sacrifice the Italian Bomber to clear the Med on Italy’s 1st turn if the Germans can clear it with ease on G2 - this bomber is essential for the Italian can-openers.

3. If for some reason the Italians got diced and were unable to land in force on Greece, you can clean up the Allied mess in Greece from Bulgaria, supported by ARM in Yugo and maybe Aircraft from Western Germany.

4. Depending on how dire the naval situation is for the UK and their first round purchases, you can enforce a convoy in SZ 109 with your fleet.  This could be especially effective if you had surviving SS from G1.  I tend to not sacrifice my fleet to keep the convoy, but even a single round of hitting for 6-8 IPC is pretty effective for UK to be cash strapped for its UK3 purchase (as it likely also lost its NO and territory on I1 that it cannot entirely reclaim before UK3.)  Its not unheard of for the UK3 purchase to be in the mid to low twenties with the convoy rolling well.

5. Move all ground units (dont forget to move AA guns too!) towards the Russian Border (Units in France to Germany, Units in Germany to Poland, Units in Yugoslavia to Hungary, Units in Bulgaria (if not used in Option 3) to Romania.

6. This all sets the stage for a G3 DOW on Russia where you can potentially move the ARM that went to Yugo, the ARM that took Paris and the ARM you purchased on G2 all in the same move (Its potentially 19 ARM total) with 22+INF into Eastern Poland.  Russia will not be countering the large stack with this DOW.

Side note would be to purchase 10 MEC on G3 that will be able to address any flank issues (space movement + aircraft in a strafe) and the MEC can catch up before the stack you placed in Eastern Poland fully advances into Russia.  IE the 10 MEC purchase on G3 means on G4 the 10 MEC can move to Baltic States from Germany and meet the full stack on G5 in Smolensk or Bryansk.

It is rather difficult for anything other than a full turtle for the Russians (and Allies) to stop 18 ARM, 15-20 INF and another 10 MEC supported by TAC/SB attacking Moscow on G5.  I do suggest potentially delaying a round to get additional SB in range, but much of this depends on the landscape.

There are many more alternatives, but this is how my Germany typically plays out.  Much of it depends on how crafty the Russian player thinks they can be - when in effect they should be maximizing numbers with full INF purchases , turtle-mode all starting units and stepping back until the Germans get close to Moscow and then dumping ART for two rounds to make the Germans reconsider sitting next to Moscow with their own stack.

[Zhukov44]

@ABWorsham:

Do many of you attack Russia before the 4th round? Before any Eastern infantry can reinforce Moscow?

You guys are my General Staff. I would love your thoughts and beliefs.

The Eastern troops get there on R6 and R7.  The earliest round Germany can make a real attack on Moscow is G5.  G6 is a good moment to attack or feint an attack.

It is critical to not overextend yourself or take major risks on G1 and G2.  For example, don’t rush yourself conquering Southern France and/or Normandy–those can wait.  Better to improve your odds/exchange in France.

I would argue it’s better to decide early on whether you want to Sea Lion or Barbarossa or concentrate on the Med and then execute your plan, unless your opponent blunders and an opportunity arises.  Some players feint both Barbarossa and Sea Lion and this can work but be sure keep a long-term plan in view at all times.  Sooner or later, Axis needs to take a capital if it wants to win.

[wilk7011]

Can someone further explain the strategy of retreating the BB back to SZ112 during your attack on SZ111 or SZ110? I do not fully understand how it works. Also are you only retreating the BB or everything? I don’t have my rules to reference, can you retreat individual units out or is it all or none? Thanks for the help and info.