AAA & amphib assault (Global 1940)

[Bentley Priory]

Question: if you were to transport an AAA with a troop on a transport and conduct and amphib assault, would the AAA be put on land in the CM phase or stay on the transport until the NCM phase?

I may have another question depending on the answer to this one. Thanks.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Bentley:

Question: if you were to transport an AAA with a troop on a transport and conduct and amphib assault, would the AAA be put on land in the CM phase or stay on the transport until the NCM phase?

I may have another question depending on the answer to this one. Thanks.

That’s a good question Bentley, AAA Guns can’t be moved during the combat movement phase, and during amphibious assaults, a transport must unload all it’s cargo into the same territory. I will ask someone who will know for sure and I will post their answer here.

Cheers.

[Young Grasshopper]

Here is the answer from Gamerman…

1)  You can’t load an AAA gun onto a transport during the combat movement phase, so to have an AAA on your transport during the combat movement phase, you would have had to have loaded that AAA onto the transport on an earlier turn, in the non-combat movement phase.

2)  If you do already have an AAA on a transport during the combat movement phase from an earlier turn, and you conduct an amphibious assault with that transport by unloading 1 infantry onto an enemy territory, you may not unload the AAA during that turn at all.  This is because once a transport unloads (it unloaded an infantry) it is DONE for the turn and cannot ever do another unload during that non-combat movement phase.

So the answer to your question is neither.  You can’t unload the AAA in the combat movement phase (this is never possible) AND you can’t unload the AAA in the noncombat movement phase EITHER, if you unloaded an infantry from that transport in the combat movement phase.

[Bentley Priory]

Ah! That makes perfect sense actually. Thanks very much. It’s funny how you can come across random situations when playing sometimes.

[Private-Panic]

Bentley’s question had me wondering, so thanks from me too for the clear answer YG

[hoyvoyyo]

I came across the same problem in the 1942.2

@Young:

Here is the answer from Gamerman…

1)  You can’t load an AAA gun onto a transport during the combat movement phase, so to have an AAA on your transport during the combat movement phase, you would have had to have loaded that AAA onto the transport on an earlier turn, in the non-combat movement phase.

2)  If you do already have an AAA on a transport during the combat movement phase from an earlier turn, and you conduct an amphibious assault with that transport by unloading 1 infantry onto an enemy territory, you may not unload the AAA during that turn at all.  This is because once a transport unloads (it unloaded an infantry) it is DONE for the turn and cannot ever do another unload during that non-combat movement phase.

So the answer to your question is neither.  You can’t unload the AAA in the combat movement phase (this is never possible) AND you can’t unload the AAA in the noncombat movement phase EITHER, if you unloaded an infantry from that transport in the combat movement phase.

The thing is that in the AAA unit characteristic section in the rulebook we found this:

“Limited Move: Normally this unit can be moved only during the Noncombat Move phase. An antiaircraft artillery unit cannot move during the Combat Move phase (other than being carried on a transport if the unit was loaded on a prior turn).”

This means that if the AAA was loaded on a prior turn, it can move on the Combat Move phase. From what I remember, the only situations in that the transport moves in a Combat Move phase are:

1. On an amphibious assault.

2. When your transport starts, in the beginning of the Combat Move phase, in a hostile sea zone (for example, if the enemy built new surface warships in that sea zone).

We really couldn’t find a satisfying answer to this situation.

[Panther]

Welcome to the forum, hoyvoyyo!

@hoyvoyyo:

I came across the same problem in the 1942.2

@Young:

Here is the answer from Gamerman…

1. You can’t load an AAA gun onto a transport during the combat movement phase, so to have an AAA on your transport during the combat movement phase, you would have had to have loaded that AAA onto the transport on an earlier turn, in the non-combat movement phase.

2. If you do already have an AAA on a transport during the combat movement phase from an earlier turn, and you conduct an amphibious assault with that transport by unloading 1 infantry onto an enemy territory, you may not unload the AAA during that turn at all.  This is because once a transport unloads (it unloaded an infantry) it is DONE for the turn and cannot ever do another unload during that non-combat movement phase.

So the answer to your question is neither.  You can’t unload the AAA in the combat movement phase (this is never possible) AND you can’t unload the AAA in the noncombat movement phase EITHER, if you unloaded an infantry from that transport in the combat movement phase.

The thing is that in the AAA unit characteristic section in the rulebook we found this:

“Limited Move: Normally this unit can be moved only during the Noncombat Move phase. An antiaircraft artillery unit cannot move during the Combat Move phase (other than being carried on a transport if the unit was loaded on a prior turn).”

This means that if the AAA was loaded on a prior turn, it can move on the Combat Move phase. From what I remember, the only situations in that the transport moves in a Combat Move phase are:

1. On an amphibious assault.

2. When your transport starts, in the beginning of the Combat Move phase, in a hostile sea zone (for example, if the enemy built new surface warships in that sea zone).

We really couldn’t find a satisfying answer to this situation.

YG’s/Gamers answer has it all:

What moves is in fact the transport (containing a previously loaded AAA). When the transport moves in Combat Move the loaded AAA gun inevitably is moved with it. But the AAA cannot be unloaded during the same turn.

HTH :-)

[hoyvoyyo]

@P@nther:

Welcome to the forum, hoyvoyyo!

@hoyvoyyo:

I came across the same problem in the 1942.2

@Young:

Here is the answer from Gamerman…

1)  You can’t load an AAA gun onto a transport during the combat movement phase, so to have an AAA on your transport during the combat movement phase, you would have had to have loaded that AAA onto the transport on an earlier turn, in the non-combat movement phase.

2)  If you do already have an AAA on a transport during the combat movement phase from an earlier turn, and you conduct an amphibious assault with that transport by unloading 1 infantry onto an enemy territory, you may not unload the AAA during that turn at all.  This is because once a transport unloads (it unloaded an infantry) it is DONE for the turn and cannot ever do another unload during that non-combat movement phase.

So the answer to your question is neither.  You can’t unload the AAA in the combat movement phase (this is never possible) AND you can’t unload the AAA in the noncombat movement phase EITHER, if you unloaded an infantry from that transport in the combat movement phase.

The thing is that in the AAA unit characteristic section in the rulebook we found this:

“Limited Move: Normally this unit can be moved only during the Noncombat Move phase. An antiaircraft artillery unit cannot move during the Combat Move phase (other than being carried on a transport if the unit was loaded on a prior turn).”

This means that if the AAA was loaded on a prior turn, it can move on the Combat Move phase. From what I remember, the only situations in that the transport moves in a Combat Move phase are:

1. On an amphibious assault.

2. When your transport starts, in the beginning of the Combat Move phase, in a hostile sea zone (for example, if the enemy built new surface warships in that sea zone).

We really couldn’t find a satisfying answer to this situation.

YG’s/Gamers answer has it all:

What moves is in fact the transport (containing a previously loaded AAA). When the transport moves in Combat Move the loaded AAA gun inevitably is moved with it. But the AAA cannot be unloaded during the same turn.

HTH :-)

Thanks P@nther!

That´s what i thought, I just needed some direct and outside-of-the-board confirmation to show to the contesting (in this case, Japan player) part.

[Requester45]

I feel as though this only furthers the uselessness of a AAA. I suppose that is why there are so many on the board to start the game. I don’t really see a point in transporting them unless you have nothing else to do.

[Fiera]

Please correct me (and I am sure you will  :wink:) if I am wrong, but the following sample is legal:

USx - transports are moved in a SZ next to London and offloads units
UKx - NCM a AAA on US transport
USy - amphibius assaults Norway with 1 inf from London
UKy - NCM move AAA to Norway

[simon33]

Yes, that is legal, assuming the assault on Norway succeeds.

[WILD BILL]

@Requester45:

I feel as though this only furthers the uselessness of a AAA. I suppose that is why there are so many on the board to start the game. I don’t really see a point in transporting them unless you have nothing else to do.

AAA guns are helpful when you are making landings in Europe because the Germans have so many air units. Often times the USA will amphib say Normandy, and the UK will NCM ground/air right after to reinforce. London has mostly inf and a $hit ton of AAA guns so pairing them up and bringing a couple over makes good sense IMO.

[KGrimB]

That’s a really cool interaction never would have thought of it like that thanks to everyone that helped clear that up

[baron Münchhausen]

@ShadowHAwk:

It would the guns a lot more usefull if you where allowed to move then in CMB but not use them in the actual fighting.

So you could load and unload them during combat phase but during the fighting they are not present at all. If you lose the piece is lost as well, its just setting up and stuff so it cannot help in the combat.

Makes the piece a lot more usefull.

It would act like a defenseless TP taken last.

You may also change the rule about TP only unloading either in CM or NCM, if you insist NCM unloaded unit on being in the same TTy, than previously in CM.

[baron Münchhausen]

Yes,
AAA unit has a strange status, not a fully functional ground unit.
This is inherited from old undestructible AAgun.
Feel to me like the first occurence or stage of old Destroyer, which was not the end of it.
Instead, it evolved after Revised into two units: Destroyer and Cruiser.
Unfortunately, it is probably the last Edition of A&A.
So, AAA will remain in this in-between zone.
Defenseless TP rule exists, making AAA move in CM allowed, as for all other units, but still defenseless would have simplify and speed up things.

Anyway, AAA rationalize and depiction is quite fuzzy as it is in 2nd edition.

[Ichabod]

Anti-aircraft units are/were embedded with combat commands at varying levels and always go “forward” with the command they fall under during offensive operations.

I think it would have been ok if the rules from the get go permitted an “attack” with AAA.

Going to start a HR rule thread on this.