Going to concede this one. Seems I’m losing on both sides of the board. Never got around to buying a third Japanese ic on Asia, not sure why. Will post when i get home.
Still interested in French rebalance? I’ll take allies for +10.
2016 League General Discussion Thread
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Why is that? Am I not seeing something?
Taking Normandy and France in G1 is absolutely possible.
Italy can then concentrate on getting Greece+Gibraltar and clearing the Med from British ships.After that, the French ships turn neutral and all french territories and infantry as well. Which means, Italy is not risking units in North Africa and against the french ships. And French infantry can’t reinforce Egypt. Italy may even get free infantry, which is easily worth the 3 IPC per turn.
You forget that you need to kill the two frenchies in southern france without capturing it :P.
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Why is that? Am I not seeing something?
Taking Normandy and France in G1 is absolutely possible.
Italy can then concentrate on getting Greece+Gibraltar and clearing the Med from British ships.After that, the French ships turn neutral and all french territories and infantry as well. Which means, Italy is not risking units in North Africa and against the french ships. And French infantry can’t reinforce Egypt. Italy may even get free infantry, which is easily worth the 3 IPC per turn.
You forget that you need to kill the two frenchies in southern france without capturing it :P.
Nevermind. I was testing it and didn’t click far enough :D.
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yeah, I just wanted to protest.
As far as I can see it, Vichy is awesome for axis. Getting 2 inf for free in north africa alone is great.
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yeah, I just wanted to protest.
As far as I can see it, Vichy is awesome for axis. Getting 2 inf for free in north africa alone is great.
Yet nobody has bothered going for it so far. Everybody I have seen so far has gone for z110 and z111.
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yeah, I just wanted to protest.
As far as I can see it, Vichy is awesome for axis. Getting 2 inf for free in north africa alone is great.
Yet nobody has bothered going for it so far. Everybody I have seen so far has gone for z110 and z111.
But you still have to clear S. France without taking the territory, right? So you are risking a fighter or two for a couple infantry in Africa. Or am I missing something (which is possible.)
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Axis don’t have to do anything to South France. Unless UK puts unit(s) there. That must be what you are thinking of
Vichy isn’t necessarily “awesome” for the Axis. It is not easy to take Normandy G1 - you have to siphon units from Paris and that could hurt - BAD
Allies can take over several French territories that they wouldn’t be able to before, and one of the huge things is USA can take control of Morocco, Algeria, and that means they can build bases there potentially. Before Italy could just not take those territories and leave them blue.Mark my words, it’s just a matter of time before everyone realizes that the Allies were given way too much in this scenario and we will be bidding away Allied NO’s. By the handful.
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Axis don’t have to do anything to South France. Unless UK puts unit(s) there. That must be what you are thinking of
Vichy isn’t necessarily “awesome” for the Axis. It is not easy to take Normandy G1 - you have to siphon units from Paris and that could hurt - BAD
Allies can take over several French territories that they wouldn’t be able to before, and one of the huge things is USA can take control of Morocco, Algeria, and that means they can build bases there potentially. Before Italy could just not take those territories and leave them blue.Mark my words, it’s just a matter of time before everyone realizes that the Allies were given way too much in this scenario and we will be bidding away Allied NO’s. By the handful.
Great news is they’re all coded in. In my 3 1/2 rounds we never had to use edit mode to fit the new rules…
Since Kid already locked in his bid for our re-match I will tell you that if I were you I’d bid to take the Allies and give up NO’s.What I mean:
I’ll take the Allies and give up the Indian Ocean sub NO.Opponent:
No, I’ll take the Allies and I’ll give up the Indian Ocean sub NO AND the new ANZAC UK island NO (Samoa, Gilbert…)etc.
Or I guess small bids like you sayBasically the allies are stronger in this version and you need to bid for the axis :P. In a year or so bids of 28 for the axis :D.
^. Also I feel the biggest culprits are the new NO’s given to the UK and China. The chinese one in particular can be bad for the Japanese as they are basically forced to leave more troops behind then they otherwise would be doing. I am referring to the chinese infantry that can pop up in non coastal tt’s. Or they are forced to build more mechanized infantry and spread them out. This is just at first glance. I haven’t bothered playing with the damn thing (yet).
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In the modgame do the other NO still count as long as they haven’t been adjusted, so for example no allied ships in the meds still gives italy 5 pu?
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Something worth considering… rather then just adjusting the improved NO’s is adding 1-2 units to western germany. 1 infantry and 1 artillery will make france + normandy slightly easier. It will also make sealion slightly easier.
Make kamikaze tokens something you can buy with the Japanese. 1-2 ipcs for a token.
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In the modgame do the other NO still count as long as they haven’t been adjusted, so for example no allied ships in the meds still gives italy 5 pu?
Yes, all original NOs not mentioned in the notes is conserved.
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Something worth considering… rather then just adjusting the improved NO’s is adding 1-2 units to western germany. 1 infantry and 1 artillery will make france + normandy slightly easier. It will also make sealion slightly easier.
Make kamikaze tokens something you can buy with the Japanese. 1-2 ipcs for a token.
Those are good ideas I think
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Something worth considering… rather then just adjusting the improved NO’s is adding 1-2 units to western germany. 1 infantry and 1 artillery will make france + normandy slightly easier. It will also make sealion slightly easier.
Make kamikaze tokens something you can buy with the Japanese. 1-2 ipcs for a token.
Those are good ideas I think
1 to 2 IPC a token seems too cheap to me. Not saying it is or isn’t, but my knee-jerk reaction is “frakkin hell, I can lose a carrier and 2 planes to 2 to 4 IPC!?!?” IMHO, 4 to 6 IPC seems better given the value. 10 Kamikazes can do serious damage to an attacking fleet and 20 IPC for 10 tokens would be so worth it for Japan (vs 2 defending fighters? Heck yea!)
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Probably right. DEFINITELY not 1!!! I wasn’t endorsing the cost, just the idea!
1 kamikaze also stops all bombardment. Just the ability to buy more is huge. Sounds like a great house rule though - probably should cost 3-4 - at LEAST - and have a limit on the total # you can buy
Kamikazes can target ships, and a single hit disables a carrier which could mean dooming 2 planes. Maybe cost 5-6 apiece
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They are so situational. I don’t like the idea of spending money on something I can’t choose to use. I’d buy a few for 2, if that was an option and Japan was doing badly, but 4 or more seems overpriced to me.
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Something worth considering… rather then just adjusting the improved NO’s is adding 1-2 units to western germany. 1 infantry and 1 artillery will make france + normandy slightly easier. It will also make sealion slightly easier.
Make kamikaze tokens something you can buy with the Japanese. 1-2 ipcs for a token.
Those are good ideas I think
Yup. Especially the 2 units for Germany aren’t such a big deal for the allies, but they do help out a lot. Obviously it requires at least 10 games worth of testing to see how much this would influence things, but my gut tells me that it might be the right fix in Europe anyways.
As for the cost of the Kamikaze tokens. I agree to a limit of how many you can buy, but honestly 2 feels like the right cost and the reason for that is that on average a kamikaze wil hit 1 out of 3 times. Which means that if you need to pay more then that for something that doesn’t even represent a unit on the board it becomes to expensive. So rather then increasing the cost… a limit to the total kamikaze tokens seems to be right.
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I wouldn’t have a problem with allowing Japan to replenish their Kamikazes at a cost of 5 IPC each. That’s a little cheaper for a submarine but unlike a submarine, the Kamikaze is lost after use so it balances out, in my opinion.
Of course, if Japan is down to buying Kamikazes instead of actual ships, odds are good they are pretty desperate anyway, so it would definitely be a situational thing.
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The ability to buy kamikazes is HUGE
You only need 1 to stop all bombardment. 1 kamikaze stops unlimited battleships and cruisers from bombarding, and just having one provides the threat to stop bombardment or disable a carrier or take out the only destroyer that could attack subs.
Would be an interesting house rule. I still suggest 4-5 IPC’s apiece, or perhaps if you want to make them 2-3 then have a low limit, like maybe 2-4 that can be purchased. Would be a good addition to the balance mod - throw a bone to the poor Axis
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The ability to buy kamikazes is HUGE
You only need 1 to stop all bombardment. 1 kamikaze stops unlimited battleships and cruisers from bombarding, and just having one provides the threat to stop bombardment or disable a carrier or take out the only destroyer that could attack subs.
Would be an interesting house rule. I still suggest 4-5 IPC’s apiece, or perhaps if you want to make them 2-3 then have a low limit, like maybe 2-4 that can be purchased. Would be a good addition to the balance mod - throw a bone to the poor Axis
I think you are overrating bombardment here. You need to buy 5 ipc costing marines these days. Now this may not seem like much more then say an infantry, but there is a significant cost attached to it. Meaning countries like the US are more likely to invest in marines, but countries like Japan are less likely to invest in them (at least in the beginning) and they may invest later in them, but it all depends. Germany might invest in them, but unlikely. UK may also invest in them, but it depends on the size of their fleet and the situation. Basically most of the time it is just the US that buys them and that is about it. At least that is the way I see it.
Also don’t forget that the allies gained a lot in the pacific. The ability to get random infantry in china is huge.
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Yea, speaking of which, I think Marines are overcosted at 5. They should really be 4 - there’s a pretty strong tradeoff between them and Artillery.
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The way it works in practice (based on 100+ play tests of the mod) is Japan gets the most early-game use out of marines. A typical J1 purchase, for example, is 3 transports, 1 marine (26 PUs). Have seen them used effectively by every country–including even Russia. (Thats always a fun one. hehe).
Initially Marines were play tested at 4PUs. The increase to 5 was based on the value of what you’re getting. . . which is, in effect, a free transport (converting one of your existing capital ships) and an artillery powered unit. They seem to get used in virtually every game.
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