Odd WW2 factoids.

[Zooey72]

A sad story I was told when I was in college was about a German soldier who had married a Jewish woman.  He married her before Hitler took over, and had children with her.  From his perspective you can be pretty sure he was no Nazi lover.  However he probably fought harder for the Reich than any other German soldier.  The powers that be said 'fight or your family goes to a Concentration Camp, and if you die - than  your family goes to a Concentration camp".  He survived the war, but his wife did not.  She died in a Bombing Raid.  The kids did live though.

[Zooey72]

Sorry to keep going to my college class, but my prof was writing a book on these personal stories when I was attending his class.

After we crossed the Rhine and were pushing deep into Germany there was a guy in a recon unit who was pushing ahead with his jeep.  The ‘convoy’ (if you want to call it that), was just the jeep and a truck.  The road ran parellel with some railroad tracks and while they were driving along, a train came up next to them.  The doors on one of the cars swung open and Jerry opened up on them with MGs.  The truck was destroyed and the jeep was damaged.  All total there were about 8 people who were hurt (not counting the dead who were left behind), only one guy got out of it unscathed.  The jeep was still functional and he had to put all of the bodies onto it.  Jerry was coming so he could not be very neat about it.  He raced back to camp with wounded all over the jeep, including on the hood.  The bleeding was so bad from the guy on the hood that it was splashing on his face.

The ‘god sniper’ from “Saving Private Ryan” was BS.  The first thing we blew up when we entered a town (and vice versa) was the church steeple for the EXACT reason the god sniper was there.  No one went up there because it was standard protocol to blow the thing up.  It was also a great location to call down artillery, so it had to go.  Funny how in the Iraq war we had to tip toe around Mosques because we were afraid of offending someone, but in WW2 blowing up a Church was a ‘no duh’ moment.

This story I really like because it is kinda funny.  Again, pushing further into Germany after the Rhine crossing.  Jerry is fighting back like crazy.  A Sgt. and his platoon take a town and are told to hold it, and to expect a counter attack.  They take the town and dig in.  Intel. was correct and the counter attack comes.  He is in a foxhole with the guy who has the anti tank equip (who was trained in it, Sarge was not).  They see a Tiger coming over the horizon and the private shits his pants and runs away.  Sarge has not been trained how to fire the thing but he gives it his best shot.  He loads it and fires at the Tiger ding, the round bounces off and never detonates.  He takes a bead and fires again, same result.  He tries a 3rd time and still no bang, however this time the Tiger backs off.  Enough dings apparently made the Tiger gun shy.

Apparently there is a safety thing you have to pull out of the AT round before you fire it.  Better lucky than smart I guess lol.

[Zooey72]

It is not PC, but read the story and tell me if anyone ever deserved to be in a concentration camp it is this PoS.  This is not from my college class, I saw this story on the History Channel.

This was an old man crying when I saw it from what happened to him happened when he was a child.  He was in a Concentration camp and put in a kid’s bunker.  In the middle of the night a guy grabs him and forces him down on his bunk.  He shoves bread into his mouth as ‘payment’ and than rapes the kid.  In the morning the guy runs off, but feels some degree of shame (or whatever) and steals the boys cap.  If the kid shows up to formation without his cap Germans will kill him (which I am sure was the intent of the rapist/thief).  Being raped as a child is horrible, but it did take second place to what was going to come if he didn’t show up with his cap.  He stole another kid’s cap, and than had to watch as that kid was executed.

I hope to God the guy who did this was a patient of Josef Mengele.  I also hope that whatever horrors that happened to him while he was in a Concentration camp were just a taste of what he is now getting in Hell.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@Zooey72:

The ‘god sniper’ from “Saving Private Ryan” was BS.  The first thing we blew up when we entered a town (and vice versa) was the church steeple for the EXACT reason the god sniper was there.  No one went up there because it was standard protocol to blow the thing up.  It was also a great location to call down artillery, so it had to go.  Funny how in the Iraq war we had to tip toe around Mosques because we were afraid of offending someone, but in WW2 blowing up a Church was a ‘no duh’ moment.

I agree with you on that ZOOEY72, totally BS.
Raised points in WW II. are frequently used by scouts and snipers and will be removed or evaded by any troops if neccessary.
Also BS, the shot of the Marder III ,which cannot raise its gun that high, that close to blow up the tower.

Other then that nice post ZOOEY72.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@Zooey72:

It is not PC, but read the story and tell me if anyone ever deserved to be in a concentration camp it is this PoS.  This is not from my college class, I saw this story on the History Channel.

This was an old man crying when I saw it from what happened to him happened when he was a child.  He was in a Concentration camp and put in a kid’s bunker.  In the middle of the night a guy grabs him and forces him down on his bunk.  He shoves bread into his mouth as ‘payment’ and than rapes the kid.  In the morning the guy runs off, but feels some degree of shame (or whatever) and steals the boys cap.  If the kid shows up to formation without his cap Germans will kill him (which I am sure was the intent of the rapist/thief).  Being raped as a child is horrible, but it did take second place to what was going to come if he didn’t show up with his cap.  He stole another kid’s cap, and than had to watch as that kid was executed.

I hope to God the guy who did this was a patient of Josef Mengele.  I also hope that whatever horrors that happened to him while he was in a Concentration camp were just a taste of what he is now getting in Hell.

I heard a story of a Jew who survived KZ Ausschwitz, who was beaten almost everyday and saw a lot of horror and unforgivable things ,who later after the war met a Guy, who was running up and down the street and asking for forgivness.
The Jew went to that guy and asked him what he is trying to achieve and were the problem is, now he turns arround and telling him who he was , the Jews eyes getting all wide up and realizing that in Front of Him is a former SS Officer who served in that KZ he (the Jew) was imprisoned there.
With trembling voice after a while the Jew then accepted his apology and forgave him and the former SS officer felt the heavy burden released from his shoulders.
They never met again or became good friends, but at least got their release of heavy burden taken away by pure forgivness!

[aequitas-et-veritas]

The “GEFRIERFLEISCHORDEN”

Better known to us as the Ostmedal ,created and handed out by and through the Führer.
All you had to do to get this piece of med(t)al was to stay in combat during the wintertime from 15. November 1941 till 15. April 1942. May also be known as „Eisbandorden“ or „Rollbahnorden“.

• wich is a term for Icemedal or runway medal.
  Nevertheless the certificate wich is handed out together with this medal states that it might stay in ownership after death and will be passed on to the remaining family members.
  Fact, it rarely happend since this medal was thrown away by the German soldiers who had no use for it at all and sometimes even burned their money so the could get a warm glimpse for the freezing hands in the winter times of 1942(mainly in Stalingrad).

[Gargantua]

Here’s a strange factoid…

For there record, there are 1000’s of Aushcwitz survivors.  In fact - the last estimate is that approximately 190,000 people survived Auschwitz alone.

You’d think less people would walk out of death camps.

[CWO Marc]

@aequitas:

@CWO:

Berlin’s huge Flak Tower G, intended to help defend the city against air attack, was incongruously located next to the Berlin Zoo’s bird sanctuary.

I think you mixed afew things up CWO Marc.  :-)

As I recall, the anti-aircraft flak tower located next to the Tiergarten bird sanctuary is mentioned in Cornelius Ryan’s book The Last Battle.  Could you clarify to what mix-up you’re refering?

[CWO Marc]

The U.S. recognizes its World War II veterans as anyone who has served between the dates of December 7, 1941 and December 31, 1946 (yes, 1946 – that’s not a typo) because the latter date was the one on which Harry Truman (through Presidential Proclamation 2714) declared that all WWII hostilities had ceased.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@CWO:

@aequitas:

@CWO:

Berlin’s huge Flak Tower G, intended to help defend the city against air attack, was incongruously located next to the Berlin Zoo’s bird sanctuary.

I think you mixed afew things up CWO Marc.�  :-)

As I recall, the anti-aircraft flak tower located next to the Tiergarten bird sanctuary is mentioned in Cornelius Ryan’s book The Last Battle.  Could you clarify to what mix-up you’re refering?

Hey CWO Marc,
you woke my interest in looking up for these Flaktowers in Berlin and came to no results of finding the combination of the Bird sanctuary and the Towers.

The only close citation I got was that a cage for Birds might have been put close there AFTER the war was over.
(the Tiergarten ones)

To add some Informations:

One year after the beginning of WW II. the Royal Airforce succesfully bombed Berlin with 22 Bombers.
Since this day the Germans actually believed that it was impossible for the R.A.F. to come this close to the capitol of Germany.
They erred BIG TIME and the night alarms went into nonstop mode till the end of September of 1940.
In a meeting of 9th of September, Hitler ordered to built huge AA defense towers for Berlin.
Six Flak towers were planned and three were built. One Flaktower present actually two towers, a Gefechtsturm = G (Battlestation)
and another one ,the Leitturm = L ( controller unit, coordinator unit) .
In April of 1942, the construction works come to an close end.

The wall are up to 2,6 meters thick and the platform measure up to 3,8 meter wall thickness. (Wandstärke bis zu 2,6m, Abschlußdecke 3,8 m)

Weapons:
4 x 10,5 cm Marineflak (replaced by 12,8 cm Flakzwilling 40 in August '42),2 cm Flak 38 and 2 cm Flakvierling 38, as well 3,7 cm Flak 43 and 3,7 cm Flakzwilling 43

The Towers also offered shelter for 15.000 peoples and some of the towers had a built in hospital.

CWO Marc, this is what I got so far and you are free to correct me.

A picture of a Flakturm modell.

[CWO Marc]

@aequitas:

you woke my interest in looking up for these Flaktowers in Berlin and came to no results of finding the combination of the Bird sanctuary and the Towers.

Here’s one reference:

http://junebarbarossa.devhub.com/blog/784584-the-prestige-objective-part-i/

“Of course, in a manner of speaking, Berlin was defensible, and had been so since 1941. That was when, in response to Allied bombing attacks, the first of six so-called Flak Towers had been erected. Berlin was not, and never really was, a fortress city. These towers represented the only form of defense it was believed Berlin required in the modern age, and why not? The city was last taken by foreign troops during the Seven Years’ War. At Humboldthain, Friedrichshain, and on the grounds of the Berlin Zoo, these leviathans were essentially antiaircraft forts, perfect expressions of Nazi tendencies toward gigantism and grandiosity. At the Zoo, at the southwest corner near the bird sanctuary, stood the most formidable of the Flak Towers. Two rooftop towers, L tower for communications, and G tower for main guns, dominated the structure, 132 feet high, covering a city block.”

[CWO Marc]

Another Tiergarten bird sanctuary reference, this one from the Cornelius Ryan book I mentioned:

http://diendan.vnthuquan.net/tm.aspx?m=175644&mpage=1

“Wave after wave of planes hit the city. As fast as squadrons exhausted their ammunition, they peeled off to the east, to be replaced by others swarming in to the attack. The surprise Russian raid added a new dimension of terror to life in Berlin. Casualties were heavy. Many civilians were hit not by enemy bullets, but by the returning fire from the city’s defenders. To get the low-flying planes in their sights, anti-aircraft crews had to depress their gun barrels almost to tree-top level. As a result, the city was sprayed with red-hot shrapnel. The shell fragments came mainly from the six great flak towers that rose above the city at Humboldthain, Friedrichshain, and from the grounds of the Berlin Zoo. These massive bombproof forts had been built in 1941-42 after the first Allied attacks on the city. Each was huge, but the largest was the anti-aircraft complex built, incongruously, near the bird sanctuary in the zoo. It had twin towers. The smaller, called L Tower, was a communications control center, bristling with radar antennae. Next to it, guns now erupting with flame, stood G Tower. G Tower was immense. It covered almost the area of a city block and stood 132 feet high –equivalent to a 13-story building. The reinforced concrete walls were more than 8 feet thick, and deep-cut apertures, shuttered by 3- to 4-inch steel plates, lined its sides. On the roof a battery of eight 5-inch guns was firing continuously, and in each of the four turreted corners multiple-barreled, quick-firing “pom pom” cannons pumped shells into the sky.”

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Hi CWO Marc, lets roll it up from the other side. What is meant by or with Bird sanctuary?
Maybe it is a term for something diffrent what I ,by translation wasn`t aware of.
But ,as I said, there is no Bird Sanctuary in any of the German refrences mentioned.
Thank you for your answers.

[CWO Marc]

@aequitas:

Hi CWO Marc, lets roll it up from the other side. What is meant by or with Bird sanctuary? Maybe it is a term for something diffrent what I ,by translation wasn`t aware of. But ,as I said, there is no Bird Sanctuary in any of the German refrences mentioned. Thank you for your answers.

I assume that “zoo bird sanctuary” refers to what is currently called the Vogelhaus Zoo Berlin (http://www.zoo-berlin.de/vogelhaus.html).  I don’t have access to a map of the Berlin Zoo as it existed in 1945, but one of the sources I quoted in my post #49 yesterday mentions that the bird sanctuary was located in the zoo’s southwest corner.  If you can locate a 1945 map of the zoo, you may be able to verify whether or not this was the case.  A current map of the zoo might also be helpful if you can find one, although it’s possible that the Vogelhaus has changed location since 1945.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@CWO:

Berlin’s huge Flak Tower G, intended to help defend the city against air attack, was incongruously located next to the Berlin Zoo’s bird sanctuary.

Die beiden Flaktuerme im Tiergarten sollten 1947 durch die britische Besatzungsmacht gesprengt werden. Am 28. Juli 1947 wurde der Leitturm mit 12 Tonnen Dynamit gesprengt. Im August folgte die erste Sprengung des Gefechtsturms mit 25 Tonnen Dynamit. Der gewuenschte Erfolg blieb aus. Die zweite Sprengung verlief nicht erfolgreicher. Erst am 30. Juli 1948 gelang es, den Gefechtsturm mit 40 Tonnen TNT zu zerstoeren. Die Reste der Tuerme wurden mit Truemmerschutt bererdet. Dieser Berg sollte in den Zoologischen Garten integriert werden. 1955 wurden die etwa 412.000 m2 Schutt wieder abgetragen und der Bunker selbst durch Kleinsprengungen beseitigt. Um diese Abrissarbeiten des Stahlbetons auszufoehren, war der Einsatz sogenannter Sauerstofflanzen erforderlich. Danach wurden auf dem Gelaende verschiedene Zoo-Gehege fuer Kamele und Nashoerner sowie das Vogelhaus erbaut. Damit ist dieses ehemalige Flakturm-Paar das einzige, das heute nicht mehr existiert.

You will like that CWO Marc,
It says (and I got it this time from wikipedia lol), that the Bird sanctuary was built in 1955 after they demolished both towers on the remainings of it.
Oh well…

[Witt]

Nice you two!

[CWO Marc]

Germany’s “Vergeltungswaffen” (“reprisal weapons”) included not only the famous V-1 cruise missile and V-2 ballistic missile but also the more obscure V-3 multi-charge smoothbore gun.  It consisted of a very long tube, into which pairs of angled barrels containing solid rocket boosters were connected at regular intervals.  These charges went off sequentially as the projectile passed them, providing extra kicks to accelerate it multiple times.  It saw only very limited use during the final months of the war.

[CWO Marc]

Fala, President Roosevelt’s pet Scottish Terrier, was almost killed aboard the cruiser USS Augusta while FDR was en route to meet Winston Chuchill off the coast of Newfoundland in August 1941 for the conference which produced the Atlantic Charter.  The crew of the Augusta was preparing to deploy the ship’s paravanes, which are anti-mine devices that are dragged in the water ahead of the vessel.  Paravanes are attached to a good many steel cables, which were laid out on the deck prior to deployment.  An officer supervised the proceedings as the crew worked.  When everything was ready, the officer prepared to blow a whistle to order the men to release the paravanes.  Just at that moment, the unaccompanied Fala came along and trotted right into the midst of the steel cables.  The officer saw him just in time and dropped the whistle from his mouth.  Had he failed to notice Fala, the Presidential pooch would have been torn to pieces by the steel cables as the paravanes ran out over the side.  Fala was picked up by an officer and delivered back to the President with a cautionary speech.  Fala’s subsequent excursions on deck were therefore always at the end of a leash, often with a member of FDR’s entourage serving as the official Presidential dog-walker.

[FieldMarshalGames]

There were more British and Commonwealth forces facing the Enemy (on the ground) than American forces in all theaters of the war until D-Day. June 6th 1944,  the D-Day landings tipped the balance and from that point on there were more US forces facing Axis forces than Commonweatlh for the remainder of the war.

Interesting fact.  This sometimes plays out on the Game board also….    :wink:

[CWO Marc]

George Marshall, having worked himself to exhaustion early in his career, disciplined himself to exercise and to relax as part of his self-regimented daily schedule.  He maintained these habits even while he was running America’s war effort during WWII: he exercised every morning, arrived at his office no later than 7:45 each day and left no later than 5:30 each evening to go home and relax.  He once stated that no one had ever had an original idea after three o’clock in the afternoon.