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Tragedy
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http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/332906/brazil-fire-toll-passes-240
For the many of you who think I’m heartless. I am humbled by this real tragedy.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the families… :S
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I saw that. Is horrific that this is only the worst night club fire in a decade!
Is horrid to ponder, as we have all been out and got drunk and not known what was going on, so others, the owners and staff, should be there to protect us.
Is wrong and not an acceptable loss of life, especially if fireworks are found to be the cause. -
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/332906/brazil-fire-toll-passes-240
For the many of you who think I’m heartless.
You’re not heartless.
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Yay! This is where I get to swap roles with Garg for rhetorical fun!
on Sept 11, 2012, 315 garment workers died in 2 factory fires in Pakistan.
On 24 November, 2012, 117 died in a factory fire in Bangladesh.
Those are just the factory fires in the last 4 months.Similar cases and I hope your heart goes out to them too.
But here’s the one that keeps me up at night:
Today: January 28th, 2013 approximately 25 THOUSAND people died of hunger. One of the most agonizing and prolonged ways to die. Most of them were children.
January 26th 2013 approximately 25 THOUSAND people died of hunger.
January 25th 2013 approximately TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND people died of hunger.
January 24th 2013 approximately 25 000 people died of hunger.
January 23th 2013 approximately 250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250
+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+
250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+
250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+ people died of hunger.
…And guess what?
Tomorrow: January 29th 2013 approximately TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND people will die of hunger.
We know you’ve got a heart. But I hope its a big one. 'Cause it’s gotta go out to a lot of families today…. and tomorrow…
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Let me try too.
This one keeps me up at night…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSVTOMkJdqs
When something bad happens, the Bee Gees show up and play this…
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Canuck12 is right, every day there are thousands of starved dead children that don’t get half the sympathy those kids at Sandy Hook got.
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What is amazing is that many of these children die because of lack of family planning services. Many die of starvation due to conflict as well but often conflict is driven by lack of access to resources which is often related to out of control population growth. Condoms save lives in many ways.
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Responding Directly to Canuck12
Do you know how long it takes to die from Hunger?
3 to 6 weeks.
Do you know how far you can walk in 3 weeks? The average human walks 4 mph. 4MPH * 12 hours a day = 48 MILES.
21 dayws * 48 Miles a day = 1008 Miles
The Big Question?!?!?
If you can’t find food in a 1000 MILE radius, SHOULD YOU BE LIVING THERE?!?!?!And considering the oceans are FULL OF LIFE FOR EVERYONE TO EAT, let’s see how far an “easy” 12 hours a day, to go 1000 miles gets us.
Each continent has its own Continental Pole of Inaccessibility, defined as the place on the continent that is farthest from any ocean. Of these continental points, the most remote is the Eurasian Pole of Inaccessibility (or “EPIA”)
46°17′N 86°40′E, in China’s Xinjiang region near the Kazakhstan border. Calculations have commonly suggested that it is 2,645 km (1,644 mi) from the nearest coastline, located in the Dzoosotoyn Elisen Desert.
No offense, but if my family or myself are about to STARVE to death, I’m going to book it, come hell or high water, as far, and as fast as possible, legal or not, to ensure they are fed. To do nothing is already DEATH sentence anyways.
Maybe we need to ask the question - in all seriousness, Why do people allow themselves to STARVE to death?
Is it a lack of knowledge? Resources? Health?!!?!
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Yay! This is where I get to swap roles with Garg for rhetorical fun!
on Sept 11, 2012, 315 garment workers died in 2 factory fires in Pakistan.
On 24 November, 2012, 117 died in a factory fire in Bangladesh. Â
Those are just the factory fires in the last 4 months.Similar cases and I hope your heart goes out to them too.
But here’s the one that keeps me up at night:
Today: January 28th, 2013 approximately 25 THOUSAND people died of hunger. One of the most agonizing and prolonged ways to die. Most of them were children.
January 26th 2013 approximately 25 THOUSAND people died of hunger.
January 25th 2013 approximately TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND people died of hunger.
January 24th 2013 approximately 25 000 people died of hunger.
January 23th 2013 approximately 250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250
+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+
250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+
250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+ people died of hunger.
…And guess what?
Tomorrow: January 29th 2013 approximately TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND people will die of hunger.
We know you’ve got a heart. But I hope its a big one. 'Cause it’s gotta go out to a lot of families today…. and tomorrow…
And what’s all this Approximately business?
Basically that means YOU MADE IT UP.
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And what’s all this Approximately business?
Basically that means YOU MADE IT UP.
No. The approximately part is because there is no body-count done every day accounting every person that has died in ever country from malnutrition or starvation so the best we can do is aggregate statistics over longer periods of time and divide by a given time period to obtain a measure like: X deaths per day/moth/year/hour/second. This is called data analysis and it produces statistics like the one I quoted which comes from the United Nations.
As to the issue of walking to find food or using the plentiful oceans as a source of nutrition: I would consider the fact that roughly 17 000 of these 25 thousand people are children. Most of whom are not aware of the continental pole of inaccessibility, nor their distance from it, nor the obvious bounty of the oceans and the ease with which they may access it nor even which direction they could walk to profit from the cornucopia of food which is every coastline in the world.
But assuming all of the ludicrous claims you made were true, even then, I challenge you to walk 12 hours a day for 21 days straight without food.
Because you think that numbers are your friend, let’s do an experiment.
Let’s assume that this malnourished child begins as a well-fed child, and let’s assume they have no illnesses and were not born infected with HIV, and let’s assume they know how far it is to the ocean and let’s assume they know how to get there and let’s assume there is a safe place for them to sleep whenever they need to and let’s assume there is so severe weather that prevents them from travelling, and let’s assume they have proper footwear to walk 1000 miles and let’s assume that they have access to water throughout their journey, and let’s assume there is a conveniently places bridge over every river, and let’s assume there are no mountains and the shortest distance to the ocean is perfectly flat without obstacles.
All unreasonable, but It would be tedious to defeat every one of those assumptions, so I will just defeat the whole argument.
So this healthy 42lb 6 year old (42 is the average in North America) is aware that they will be starving for the next 21 days and that there is absolutely no chance of eating if they stay where they are, (how they know this we don’t know, but let’s assume) now let’s assume they calculate the distance to the nearest ocean where they can easily eat plenty of food for free and without any knowledge of fishing (because they live 1000 miles from the ocean) So they set out to go there.
You suggested walking 4 miles an hour so that’s how fast she walks. She stays at the free Holiday In every night on the way there where she is rested and ready to walk another 48 miles every day without food or rest.
How many calories will she burn in this trip? Well she will burn at least 1800 calories a day just from having a beating heart and being a child, plus she will burn about 1700 calories a day from all that walking, assuming the ground is perfectly flat. So in total, this person will burn about 3500 calories a day which will cost her about a pound of weight every day for 21 days. Meaning she is going to lose half of her bodyweight in the trip and be 21 pounds by the time she arrives. What is the probability that she will survive this trip without succumbing to exhaustion, infection, or illness or any other of the number of health effects associated with malnutrition? Horrifyingly slim. Which is exactly what a 6 year old that weighs 21 pounds looks like.
The point is that every conceivable factor would have to go right for this plan to work. They can’t get lost, they can’t drown crossing a river. They can’t get bitten by a snake, they can’t get dehydrated, they can’t get infected blisters, they can’t be carrying a sibling etc. etc. AND they have to have the sheer mental and physical capacity to walk for 21 days without taking a break AND be a damn good fisherman!
So for all we know all 17 000 of these children are doing just that!
Except maybe they started off malnourished, or they didn’t know which way to go, or they feared leaving their parents, or they were tending to crops without food for 18 days until locusts ate them and left them without food and only 3 days left until starvation, or there was no water source for3 days of the trip etc. etc. etc.
Or maybe these issues can’t simply be boiled down to walking to the nearest food source.
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Very good debate, and very fun to read.
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I hate to sound heartless here, but who cares?
It’s a night club fire in Brazil, I don’t live in Brazil, ergo I don’t care what happens to them. Is it sad that human life was lost? Yes, of course. Should I take a moment to think about the “victims” and their families? Maybe, at least moment. Should I give a crap that a bunch of adults died in a fire while dancing, drinking, and trying to get laid because their country is horribly corrupt and the place wasn’t up to fire code? No, not at all, that would be the local Brazilians problem, not mine.Sorry but I fail to see how this is really a “tragedy”, or one worth discussing here.
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This is about Garg trying to demonstrate that he’s not a heartless monster (which he is not) and me playfully testing to see the limit of his heart-y-ness…
That’s all… :-)
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I heard that the Bush government knew about the 911 terrorist plan, but allowed it to happen (even rigged the towers with explosives to seal the deal) so they would have the public support to wage their trillion dollar war campaign for weapon production and oil interests.
Now thats heartless!
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I heard that the Bush government knew about the 911 terrorist plan….
No. The martian delegates from the flat earth society planned 911 so they could use their newly designed butt probes called the ‘misery index’. They happen to all look like Jimmy Carter and work on a peanut farm. Thats all we know at this point.
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@Imperious:
newly designed butt probes
Don’t you mean flu shots with nano chips?
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And what’s all this Approximately business?
Basically that means YOU MADE IT UP.
No. The approximately part is because there is no body-count done every day accounting every person that has died in ever country from malnutrition or starvation so the best we can do is aggregate statistics over longer periods of time and divide by a given time period to obtain a measure like: X deaths per day/moth/year/hour/second. This is called data analysis and it produces statistics like the one I quoted which comes from the United Nations.
As to the issue of walking to find food or using the plentiful oceans as a source of nutrition: I would consider the fact that roughly 17 000 of these 25 thousand people are children. Most of whom are not aware of the continental pole of inaccessibility, nor their distance from it, nor the obvious bounty of the oceans and the ease with which they may access it nor even which direction they could walk to profit from the cornucopia of food which is every coastline in the world.
But assuming all of the ludicrous claims you made were true, even then, I challenge you to walk 12 hours a day for 21 days straight without food.
Because you think that numbers are your friend, let�s do an experiment.
Let�s assume that this malnourished child begins as a well-fed child, and let�s assume they have no illnesses and were not born infected with HIV, and let�s assume they know how far it is to the ocean and let�s assume they know how to get there and let�s assume there is a safe place for them to sleep whenever they need to and let�s assume there is so severe weather that prevents them from travelling, and let�s assume they have proper footwear to walk 1000 miles and let�s assume that they have access to water throughout their journey, and let�s assume there is a conveniently places bridge over every river, and let�s assume there are no mountains and the shortest distance to the ocean is perfectly flat without obstacles.Â
All unreasonable, but It would be tedious to defeat every one of those assumptions, so I will just defeat the whole argument.
So this healthy 42lb 6 year old (42 is the average in North America) is aware that they will be starving for the next 21 days and that there is absolutely no chance of eating if they stay where they are, (how they know this we don�t know, but let�s assume) now let�s assume they calculate the distance to the nearest ocean where they can easily eat plenty of food for free and without any knowledge of fishing (because they live 1000 miles from the ocean) So they set out to go there.
You suggested walking 4 miles an hour so that’s how fast she walks. She stays at the free Holiday In every night on the way there where she is rested and ready to walk another 48 miles every day without food or rest.
How many calories will she burn in this trip? Well she will burn at least 1800 calories a day just from having a beating heart and being a child, plus she will burn about 1700 calories a day from all that walking, assuming the ground is perfectly flat. So in total, this person will burn about 3500 calories a day which will cost her about a pound of weight every day for 21 days. Meaning she is going to lose half of her bodyweight in the trip and be 21 pounds by the time she arrives. What is the probability that she will survive this trip without succumbing to exhaustion, infection, or illness or any other of the number of health effects associated with malnutrition? Horrifyingly slim. Which is exactly what a 6 year old that weighs 21 pounds looks like.
The point is that every conceivable factor would have to go right for this plan to work. They can�t get lost, they can�t drown crossing a river. They can�t get bitten by a snake, they can�t get dehydrated, they can�t get infected blisters, they can�t be carrying a sibling etc. etc. AND they have to have the sheer mental and physical capacity to walk for 21 days without taking a break AND be a damn good fisherman!
So for all we know all 17 000 of these children are doing just that!
Except maybe they started off malnourished, or they didn�t know which way to go, or they feared leaving their parents, or they were tending to crops without food for 18 days until locusts ate them and left them without food and only 3 days left until starvation, or there was no water source for3 days of the trip etc. etc. etc.
Or maybe these issues can�t simply be boiled down to walking to the nearest food source.
I only need to ask ONE thing in order to destroy your entire position.
WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?
Ergo, these children may have died of starvation, but said starvation was at the hands of their own families (abandoned or not).
Ergo, the states where these people live also failed these children too. Likely a result of corrupt leadership controlling food supply for power and war mongering.
ERGO the W.H.O. and U.N. does not list starvation and malnutrition as an actual cause of death, because of the other factors involved. (Go ahead - LOOK IT UP.)
Ergo the position that 25,000 people die everyday because of starvation as opposed to poor parenting, or a total lack of personal or social responsibility is insolvent.
P.S.
LOL at Clyde’s response. Epic and American.
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Come on Garg…
You’re saying that they didn’t die of starvation because there were other factors that lead to their starvation?
That’s like saying that plane crashes don’t kill people, buying plane tickets kills people.
And almost as crazy and backward as saying that guns don’t kill people, people kill people!
;-)
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Come on Garg…
You’re saying that they didn’t die of starvation because there were other factors that lead to their starvation?
That’s like saying that plane crashes don’t kill people, buying plane tickets kills people.
And almost as crazy and backward as saying that guns don’t kill people, people kill people!
;-)
Abortion doesn’t kill babies, condoms kill babies :|
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Come on Garg…
You’re saying that they didn’t die of starvation because there were other factors that lead to their starvation?
That’s like saying that plane crashes don’t kill people, buying plane tickets kills people.Â
And almost as crazy and backward as saying that guns don’t kill people, people kill people!
;-)
Excuse me for citing the WHO and the UN.
Where are you sources? Oh right, you made them up. I almost forgot. :P
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