AA.Org Official Alpha 3 Thread

[Panther]

@Koningstiger:

They won’t be posted anywhere online???

Here they are:

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=6149

The first post in this thread covers everything including the changes as of 02-11-12.

You’re right, they are not incorporated in the rulebook at the moment, but at least this first post is the one and only source needed
to cover the latest “official rules” along with the original rulebook.
:-)

[Derek]

Its not difficult, print those rules posted at the larryharris site, put them in a small folder/binder, and now you have 3 rulebooks.

Alpha supersedes all
Europe supersedes Pacific, Use Europe book for whatever Alpha does not clarify.
Use Pacific rulebook for anything not yet spelled out in above 2 books.

[Zhukov44]

Alpha 3.9 is a very impressive game.  Big kudos to the playtesters and LH for developing the ruleset.

I got the impression that the OOB version was biased towards German Sealion and if Germany didn’t commit to Sealion they were likely to lose, while being likely to win if Sealion was achieved by G3.

But alpha 3.9 makes Sea Lion very risky imho.  Barring luck or Allied mistakes you won’t get it until G4, which is likely too late if Russia is moving forward and USA is investing heavily in the Atlantic.

If you are playing India Crush at the same time, then Japan should be declaring on J2.  But a J2 declaration means USA could land both air and gear in London on USA3.

I don’t know if Indiacrush is viable with just the starting 3 transports and a J3 declaration….it may be, or you may have to wait till J4.  Either way, if Japan declares on J3, then USA can move its Atlantic fleet in position to liberate UK on USA4 and land any bombers it has on UK for fodder.  Germany can do what it can to stall USA and/or retake UK whenever its liberated but at that point the Soviets should have mainland dominance and Germany should be having trouble keeping its fleet in the water vrs. USA air/naval.

If on the other hand Japan does not declare J2 or J3 to give Germany room to Sealion, then Anzac and UK-Pacific should make enough money to hold out on their own and USA can put most of its income into the Atlantic.

Arguably the most viable axis strat I’ve seen in alpha 3.9 is all 3 powers going after Russia and winning the long game by dominating Eurasia.  At this early stage I see no evidence the game remains biased towards Sealion like the OOB.

[Koningstiger]

@P@nther:

@Koningstiger:

They won’t be posted anywhere online???

Here they are:

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=6149

The first post in this thread covers everything including the changes as of 02-11-12.

You’re right, they are not incorporated in the rulebook at the moment, but at least this first post is the one and only source needed
to cover the latest “official rules” along with the original rulebook.
:-)

OK, so the link is actually 3.9? It simply says Alpha +3.

[Derek]

@Koningstiger:

@P@nther:

@Koningstiger:

They won’t be posted anywhere online???

Here they are:

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=6149

The first post in this thread covers everything including the changes as of 02-11-12.

You’re right, they are not incorporated in the rulebook at the moment, but at least this first post is the one and only source needed
to cover the latest “official rules” along with the original rulebook.
:-)

OK, so the link is actually 3.9? It simply says Alpha +3.

3.9 doesnt really mean anything

That thread contains the latest Alpha ruleset (which is alpha +3)

Go look at it, it even has the dates anychanges where made

[bblitz]

I argee with Zhukov that the J3 India crush nor the G3 sealion are done deals. It will only bring the USA into the war sooner and give the Russians a great buffer to gear up. I think the game is actually pretty balanced and a lot relies on luck of the dice.

[Jennifer]

@bblitz:

I argee with Zhukov that the J3 India crush nor the G3 sealion are done deals. It will only bring the USA into the war sooner and give the Russians a great buffer to gear up. I think the game is actually pretty balanced and a lot relies on luck of the dice.

Ah, but you are looking at each in a vacuum, I dare say. Try looking at what happens when they BOTH occur (which is pretty common if you know how to do both moves.)  America gets in early, sure, but they’re stretched too thin to do much of anything but focus on Japan (else they lose their NOs and can’t focus on anything.)

[bblitz]

I don’t think knowing how to do it is the issue. Firstly, a good Allied player will always counter the Axis move as best as possible. Secondly, and even more importantly, the dice actually are the key on those critical battles. I tend to read too many posts where players bank on results that are actually quite risky. Each round is almost a mini game. One or two good rounds can swing the game around and fortunately there is no absolute manuscript on winning the game.

If the Germans lose too many valuable air and sea units taking our the England, Sealion is not possible. If the Chinese manage to get kills regularly on defence , India will just not happen as the Japanese attack will run out of steam. If I am throwing 1s & 2s and my opponent is throwing 5s & 6s, there is only going to be one outcome. Napoleon’s famous first question when promoting an officer was “Is he lucky?”. Hence give me luck and I was always bring home the bacon even against a five star AA veteran.

[BigBadBruce]

@Zhukov44:

…OOB version was biased towards German Sealion and if Germany didn’t commit to Sealion they were likely to lose, while being likely to win if Sealion was achieved by G3.

Whatever Axis does in OOB, they will loose. No mather what.
I never ever won with Axis OOB and nobody ever beat me playing Axis OOB.

I feel Alpha 2 is best set or rules, most balanced.

[Derek]

@BigBadBruce:

@Zhukov44:

…OOB version was biased towards German Sealion and if Germany didn’t commit to Sealion they were likely to lose, while being likely to win if Sealion was achieved by G3.

Whatever Axis does in OOB, they will loose. No mather what.
I never ever won with Axis OOB and nobody ever beat me playing Axis OOB.

I feel Alpha 2 is best set or rules, most balanced.

Not alpha 3.9 ?
I completely disagree if you think alpha 2 is

[Alsch91]

I would agree with Bruce actually.

A3 was awfully…thrown together, if you ask me.
I can’t see anything wrong with A2, really.

[questioneer]

For those interested…link
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=26786.0

[techroll42]

Why in the bloody hell would that make a difference?

[Jennifer]

A)  I have never seen the allies recover from losing BOTH England AND India on round 3/4 regardless of the paper tiger of bringing the US into the war a round early (they get to collect that full amount anyway at the end of round 3, all you are giving them is a combat phase that round.)

B)  Alpha 2 MODIFIED are the best rules, IMHO.  (Alpha 2 + AA Gun rules and placements from Alpha 3 = best set so far in my mind.)

C)  Allies CAN sacrifice their position on the Pacific board and not lose India.  When this occurs, I generally get Hawaii and Sydney instead thus causing Japan to win the game.

[Derek]

@Cmdr:

A)  I have never seen the allies recover from losing BOTH England AND India on round 3/4 regardless of the paper tiger of bringing the US into the war a round early (they get to collect that full amount anyway at the end of round 3, all you are giving them is a combat phase that round.)

B)  Alpha 2 MODIFIED are the best rules, IMHO.  (Alpha 2 + AA Gun rules and placements from Alpha 3 = best set so far in my mind.)

C)  Allies CAN sacrifice their position on the Pacific board and not lose India.  When this occurs, I generally get Hawaii and Sydney instead thus causing Japan to win the game.

So the whole point of the latest (and last) alpha was to balance sealion and crush calcutta…
what am i missing ?
if alpha 2 was so great then are why was everyone including larry still not satisfied with balance untill alpha 3 was finished?

alpha 3 is the ruleset that will be included in G40 re-release correct ?

Where does alpha 3 fall short where alpha 2 was so great ?

[BigBadBruce]

@Uncrustable:

Where does alpha 3 fall short where alpha 2 was so great ?

I feel Alpha 2 wasn’t giving enough play test before it was decided to change it. Many where saying is was cracked and allies were giving winners easily. I always disagree with that. I feel Alliance have a slight advantage, but not that much, like 60%-40%… eventhough I won more games as Axis.

But let’s take each “difference” Between Alpha 2 and 3.

1. Game order. Switch between Italy and Anzac. Doesn’t change much. If anything will help Axis in European theater… but Anzac is rarely significant there.

2.In Alpha3, Russia can declare if Axis captures London. HUGE Alliance advantage, denying Axis to regroup against Russia after fall of London.

3.Political situation, Japan naval restriction. Doesn’t change much. Any Japanese adventure too close there (too soon) isn’t a real game helper anyway.

4.Soviet/Japanese non Agression Pact. Tricky rules… adds “color” to the game, but a cost of complexity. At Axis advantage I feel, as it gives more ways to enter Russia.

5. Russia NO : Alliance slight advantage. In fact, Bulgaria and Finland are now more income. But along the fact Russia can attack right after Germany takes London…

6. India NO : Easier to achieve, but still unlikely to happen. So Alliance slight advantage.

7. USA NO : If France is retaken and holds… well, it’s pretty much done for Axis anyway. Still Alliance slight advantage. The “lost” of islands battle in Pacific is sad. Lost of “color” in the game there.

8. Unit placement : 3 signicant changes.

• Italy. z96, this only deny the option to sink z95 Italian Navy (which isn’t the best strat anyway). So no clear advantage here.

• UK 7 more HP in London + 2 more in Scotland : Impressivly Huge advantage. Really, Sea Lion is now impossible against any fair alliance player.

• Ship plancement in Manche. Clear Alliance Advantage.

9. AA Guns. Very arguable which side benefits from that rule. Since the most significant difference is 4 more HP in London… I say it’s an Alliance great advantage. Axis never really use AA anyway, besides when they are already loosing the game.

10. Bombing raid. Depends more on player’s type of play here… so kinna no clear advantage by this new rule.

11. Convoy. Again, depends on players. No clear advantage for a side or another. IMO adding dice here just adds complexity.

By additionnal complexity, I don’t complain the idea, but it just stretch game lenght even more, of a very long game already.

Overall, those new rules unbalanced even more Alpha 2… which is why Alpha 2 is the best set of rules. (OOB rule is just total impossible for Axis, never saw Axis won in over 20 games).

[Cow]

Alpha 3.9 is so much more fluid to play and a much better map overall. Much more action going toward an objective in alpha 3.9

It is balanced. Allies are harder to play than Axis. Which is why there are so many axis wins going on.

G1 carrier and a destroyer (save 6 ipc)
G2 If uk sent all his planes out to sink stuff… well this is where you buy all transports and a destroyer and take UK over. you typically have a tank or four left and your air after you hit on G3.
otherwise just do operation B, you won’t be much further behind than if you had bought all ground forces and moved it up.
~~also if you take over UK, don’t buy any thing for it or on it and get your surviving land back to europe. no more naval buy. also you should be shipping the norway/finns that whole area should be empty. (you have transports to take it back later, you may as well use them and have more inf for your big europe stack).

UK gets liberated, woopdy freaking doo. he still has to upgrade to a major IC or buy 3 units a turn.

OR

operation B and plow to moscow. -problem is UK crashes italy and makes the country sad for the whole game. But that’s okay italy can just defend europe.
~
Japan winning on pacific is easy. only 6 VCs  so you just go strait for calcutta get all the vcs along the way. Then all you go to do is hammer out hawaii or do something real tricky for anzac.

Russians have to show up to manchuria when japan pushes for calcutta… otherwise china will be dead and if you don’t then japan will make more money than USA and Japan wins pacific. Fall back round 1 push forward round 2 and then war japan round 3 and move in.

So I like the rules allowing russians to go go go.

The thing is, Axis just need to be successful on one side of the board. So you have to take that into consideration.
~
I am just happy the game is no longer boring. Plus I almost always end up seeing pacific battles that matter like japan going for hawaii screaming AHHHHHHHHHH THIS IS GAME OVER FOR YOU NIGGGAAA!!!

[Cow]

Just play the damn game. You will find wins on both sides. The games are good.

Also there is a steep learning curve, so it takes time for people to figure it out. All versions had lots of rules. This version has more action with less BS and is the most balanced version.

I love 3.9

[Cow]

1. Game order. Switch between Italy and Anzac. Doesn’t change much. If anything will help Axis in European theater… but Anzac is rarely significant there.

2.In Alpha3, Russia can declare if Axis captures London. HUGE Alliance advantage, denying Axis to regroup against Russia after fall of London.

3.Political situation, Japan naval restriction. Doesn’t change much. Any Japanese adventure too close there (too soon) isn’t a real game helper anyway.

4.Soviet/Japanese non Agression Pact. Tricky rules… adds “color” to the game, but a cost of complexity. At Axis advantage I feel, as it gives more ways to enter Russia.

5. Russia NO : Alliance slight advantage. In fact, Bulgaria and Finland are now more income. But along the fact Russia can attack right after Germany takes London…

6. India NO : Easier to achieve, but still unlikely to happen. So Alliance slight advantage.

7. USA NO : If France is retaken and holds… well, it’s pretty much done for Axis anyway. Still Alliance slight advantage. The “lost” of islands battle in Pacific is sad. Lost of “color” in the game there.

8. Unit placement : 3 signicant changes.

• Italy. z96, this only deny the option to sink z95 Italian Navy (which isn’t the best strat anyway). So no clear advantage here.

• UK 7 more HP in London + 2 more in Scotland : Impressivly Huge advantage. Really, Sea Lion is now impossible against any fair alliance player.

• Ship plancement in Manche. Clear Alliance Advantage.

9. AA Guns. Very arguable which side benefits from that rule. Since the most significant difference is 4 more HP in London… I say it’s an Alliance great advantage. Axis never really use AA anyway, besides when they are already loosing the game.

10. Bombing raid. Depends more on player’s type of play here… so kinna no clear advantage by this new rule.

11. Convoy. Again, depends on players. No clear advantage for a side or another. IMO adding dice here just adds complexity.

what you are saying is, “If I want to do sealion and win, I have to wait till UK1 happens before I can determine if I should go through and do sea lion.”

yes, buy your damn carrier and destroyer round 1, retain 6, then buy all transports g2. You can only expect victory if UK used all his air to sink italy.

germany can only beat UK if he does something risky. Russians should be a force of reckon after germany spent all that on naval and fought for a capital. Germany still holds out just fine.

AA guns help Japan. Japan can move out much safer and it makes eyeballing defending japan easier and saves japan 9 bucks in infantry cannon fodder. Same thing for italy and germany. AA guns will help you greatly after taking london over against the russians.

Hell AA guns help greatly if you go strait for russia…. USA nutcrackers norway and denmark… uk comes in and conquers germany… aa guns can save you by being casualties.
~

3.9 is good. it is balanced. it is more aggressive. game play is more fluid. both sides have a fair shot at winning.
~ in fact the new aa gun rules were the best idea anyone came up with, it allows the axis to be more aggressive so you should be more aggressive and you will find that the axis is pretty damn good.

3.9 is exciting.

[BigBadBruce]

@Cow:

what you are saying is, “If I want to do sealion and win, I have to wait till UK1 happens before I can determine if I should go through and do sea lion.”

Nope, never said that. As Axis I plan Sea lion right from G1. Always did.

@Cow:

buy your damn carrier and destroyer round 1, retain 6, then buy all transports g2.

This is what I do (but don’t retain 6, I rather a Sub).

@Cow:

AA guns (…)

As I said, a whole debate can occur here, but nothing is more certain than the great help London gets. What’s most valuable than VC? Since Axis has “to get them”, then it’s clearly a stronger advantage for Alliance. Yes in some cases AA guns are useful for Axis, but not as much as VC defences.

@Cow:

3.9 is good. it is balanced.

And you say that after how many games?
Again same opponents?

@Cow:

so you should be more aggressive and you will find that the axis is pretty damn good.

You never played with me and yet you can comment on it?
I feel my Axis play just fine looking at my record…