[EUROPE] [PACIFIC] [GUADALCANAL]

[Scharnhorst1943]

Hello,
First post, and sorry it’s a long one! These are the three A&A games I have. I am putting together some tweaks that combine some units/features of newer A&A games, as well as changing some things to mix it up. The games kind of follow the same pattern, as a result of each player maximizing the rules to give themselves an advantage. I absolutely love these games, but I’m tired of the same old predictable outcomes.

I have some ideas I want to run by the community here. They are not fully my ideas, but a combination of some ideas I’ve had, and combining other ideas I’ve come across from other A&A games or others house rules. I would like some honest criticism to see if these ideas are solid, or if they are too complex, too cumbersome, or will overpower or unbalance the game too much. I am interested to see if anyone here has feedback on, “I tried that, and it went like this.” My overall goal is to balance the game a little more, and give options to change the same predictable outcomes, and also not have stacks of red chips for tanks, fighters and destroyers like there is every game. After spending quite a bit of time thinking and researching, I am looking at all these ideas combined as a whole.

So here are my complaints and things I want to address with my tweaks. First, I think aircraft in general are too powerful. In A&A Europe I am tired of losing my English Battleship the first turn every game. A German Bomber, a couple fighters and subs wipe me out every time. Also, the same turn I break my German battleship into the Atlantic it is sunk by American bombers, every single time. It is frustrating that heavy bombers dominate every battle, and are the deciding factor always, both land and sea.

Second, I also thought destroyers were too powerful, or subs were too weak. It almost becomes pointless to have a game that Germany focuses on England, and impossible for a game to be won by defeating one of the Allies other than Russia. My U-Boats are almost always wiped out within a couple turns. But even if I am buying subs to keep up with losses, they still can’t seem to overcome the Allies and it is just a matter of time no matter what I do. Also, nobody buys battleships or carriers. They only buy destroyers because they are the best bang for the buck, hence stacks of red chips for DD’s. Same with tanks.

Third, it seems to take too long to build up Transports for invasions. Either the Transports cost too much, or can carry too little. Germany is taking Moscow and I am either still building an invasion force, or 1-2 turns from invading France or Germany

Lastly, it seems like it takes too long for America to get strategic bombing raids going. It takes 3 or 4 full turns to build up enough bombers to start overcoming German AA and fighter defenses, and get effective strategic Bombing raids that actually affect the German paycheck enough to get Russia from the defensive to the offensive. And that is my entire paycheck on just that the whole time to get it going. Like with Transports and invasions, it seems like bombers are too expensive. Germany is taking Moscow, and I maybe get one really good str bomb raid that starts decimating the German paycheck. Seems too little too late, despite I only bought bombers every single turn.

So here are my ideas. Some of these I have tried, but not all of them, and not all of them combined together. I have bought many new pieces from Historic Board Gaming, and I have a new setup I am about to play test. But it is hard for me to convince my regular players to play test and try new things. So I am going to just play test myself, and play a game as all the countries and document what happens. I’m going to start with A&A Europe.

I want to address air power, and also incorporate the new Tactical Bomber Unit added in later A&A games. The trick is finding the right balance between the unit cost and die rolls of each unit to each other, but keeping the overall game balanced.

Germany:
Fighter Bf-109 / Fw-190
Long Range Fighter Bf-110
Dive/Torp Bomber Ju-87
Bomber Ju-88 / He-111
Air Transport Ju-52

Great Britain:
Fighter Hurricane / Spitfire
Long Range Fighter Mosquito
Dive/Torp Bomber Swordfish
Bomber Lancaster
Air Transport C-47

United States:
Fighter P-51
Long Range Fighter P-38
Dive/Torp Bomber SBD / TBF
Bomber B-17
Air Transport C-47

Russia:
Fighter Yak
Long Range Fighter N/A
Dive/Torp Bomber IL-2
Bomber IL-4
Air Transport C-47

Unit Cost Die Movement
Fighter $8 A2/D2 M4
LR Fighter $10 A2/D2 M6
D/T Bomber $12 A3/D1 M4
Bomber $15 A2/D1 M6
Air Tr $12 A0/D1 M6

Reduce fighters to A2/D2 and reduce their cost. Reduce bombers to A2/D1, but roll two dice each on land and str bomb raids. Add long range fighter piece (twin engine M6). Add Dive/Torp bomber with A3/D1. Add Air Transports for paratroopers. I suppose Bomber piece could also do air drops.

Next reduce Destroyers to A2/D2 and reduce their cost. They still negate subs 1st strike. I am undecided to allow them shore bombardment or not, because I am adding the Cruiser piece with A3/D3 which can do random shore bombardments with Battleships without requiring an amphibious assault.

I am adding a Troop Transport unit that can carry double what a Transport Ship can carry. This should help invasions possibly get going sooner. Reduce unit cost of Transport to $6 and add Troop Ship for $8.

I also want to add an escort carrier. My thinking is a cheaper escort carrier with a single Dive/Torp Bomber can be highly effective, but also bought more because the cost.

Unit Cost Die
Transport $6 A0/D1
Troopship $8 A0/D1
Submarine $8 A2/D2
Destroyer $10 A2/D2
Cruiser $12 A3/D3
Battleship $24 A4/D4
Escort Carrier $10 A1/D2
Carrier $15 A1/D2

Lastly, the land units. I am adding a Mobile Infantry piece (truck or half-track) that can carry 2x army units (like a Transport ship only on the land). I am also toying with the idea of a heavy tank. For heavy tanks, I am undecided to have them take two hits to destroy, or attack on a 4.

Unit Cost Die Move
Infantry $3 A1/D2 M1
Artillery $4 A2/D2 M1
Truck $3 A1/D1 M2
Armor $5 A3/D2 M2
Hvy Armor $8 A3/D2 M2

I guess I’ll let you know how it goes …
Thanks for reading

[General 6 Stars]

What are your escort and interceptor values. If its escorts D1 and interceptors D2 that is to strong. Part of why you can’t hit Germany early.

SO the Europe and Pacific games are 2nd Editions ? Well first need to see what are all costs and values for each game.
Are you trying to add all 3 games into 1 ?
Your better off going to G40 global then. Or maybe I’m missing something here. I can see a lot of your pieces cost to much and a few pieces need value adjustments.

Guadalcanal has total different piece costs and values.
So you will need to explain in more details what you are trying to do.
You want your values used also in Guadalcanal game too ?

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@scharnhorst1943

I really want to help, but I’m too tired and exhausted to pull up the rulebook online and examine your ideas (I only have the Global 1940 edition, 1941, D-Day, and 1914).

They seem interesting though, and I wonder how will you be able to incorporate these Global 1940 house rules into this earlier version:

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/37535/the-captain-s-house-rules-collection

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/37369/what-if-the-soviet-union-joined-the-axis-and-japan-joined-the-allies-well-really-japan-erupting-into-an-imperial-civil-war/76

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/37396/axis-and-allies-spring-1941-spring-1942-spring-1943-and-spring-1944-setup-for-axis-and-allies-1940-game-board/15

Do note that here are a few minor addition not in that link.

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/37504/let-s-make-the-axis-and-allies-global-1940-expansion-rules-even-more-accurate/1

The above link is an attempt by me to make The Captain’s rules (legendary now) more historically accurate.

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/37367/an-accurate-version-of-axis-and-allies-global-1940

This person has several great posts on house rules:

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/user/all-encompassing-goose

How accurate is it historically, anyway? More or less accurate? Thank you!

There are so many more posts for you to discover (I remember one about oil). Welcome to the forum and happy playing!

[barnee]

@general-6-stars I think these are the original Europe and Pacific.

[Scharnhorst1943]

@general-6-stars

These are first edition Europe, and first edition Pacific. Right now I am focusing on Europe, and want to do something similar to Pacific. I am not combining them into one, but I want to add and tweak within each one. My OOB versions do not have cruiser or tactical bombers. My Europe version does not have any French units at all, and starts with Barbarossa. My OOB Pacific has red Japanese pieces and blond Australian/Indian pieces. I want to add the cruiser and tactical bomber unit to these older games. But that requires some tweaking of the unit costs and die rolls of the other OOB units.

My complaints are general frustrations with stock OOB versions, because the games are always almost the same. The German player buys only red chips of tanks because it is the best land unit for the cost. A destroyer + fighter attacking one or two German subs on A3 each are almost guaranteed hits. It is pointless to get your German battleship out into the Atlantic because American bombers sink it immediately. Fighters and bombers dominate every land and sea battle, and the strategy gets locked into buying only tanks, fighters and destroyers, which dominate. Aircraft are used like a hat and whomp anything they attack, with land and sea units simply there for fodder. I am trying to change the same old predictable outcome of stock OOB Europe & Pacific. Hence my tweaks.

In my OOB versions, fighters cost $12 and A3/D4. The D4 made no sense to me, and seemed too powerful. Destroyers cost $12 and A3/D3. Like sea tanks, they were the best power unit for the cost. There was no point in buying anything else, because buying battleships or carriers wasted your time/money. The bomber A4 just dominated any battle it was in. Like an air battleship it was a guaranteed hit every round and ended up being the deciding factor in any battle it is in. My stock OOB transports are $8 and stock OOB carriers are $18. I enjoy the game, and even love these versions, I am just looking to spice it up to change the same predictable outcomes. I am trying to break up stacks of red chips of tanks, fighters and destroyers. I am compiling my notes and will share my results. I play tested these new rules with A&A Europe. The results were interesting and promising.

[General 6 Stars]

OK I get ya now. I believe tanks cost 5 in Europe game. Yes to low. I can give you ideas of costs and values that I have tested and played. I’ll post Europe pieces for now with the Cruiser and Tac bomber added with other piece adjustments.

[General 6 Stars]

For Europe game only.
Inf C3 A1/2 D2 M1
Paratrooper C4 A3/2/1 D2
Art C4 A2 D2 M1/2 Mech can tow in non combat only.
Mech C4 A1/2 D2 Can tow Art and carry 1 Inf in non combat only M2 Art boosts +1 only in combat.
Tank C6 A3 D3 M2
H. Tank C7 A3 D3 2 hits build only 1 per turn. M1

Fig C8 A2 D2 M4 DF 2
LR Fig C9 A2 D2 M5
Tac C10 A3 D1 M4
Stg.B C11 A3 D1 M6 SBR 1d6+2 DF1
Air Tr C8 A0 D0 can transport 1 Paratrooper in combat only. Or 1 Inf in non combat.

BB C18 A4 D4 2 hits shore 4 M2
CR C10 A3 D3 Pick a plane or ship hit M2
DD C7 A2 D2 M2
SS C6 A2 D1 M2
TR C7 A0 D1 M2
TTR C8 A0 D1 Can transport any 2 units M2
AC C15 A1 D2 2 hits
EC C7 A1 D1

Here’s a basic start with. Since I’ve play tested many different ways with all these pieces best you start with theses. Don’t want to go over board other way then have to chase back and forth. I don’t agree on a few of these units but its what you kind a want and start play testing is all I can say.
Its way too bad you can’t get at least 1 group member to test with. 3-4 players is way better to. Way more different moves.

Good Luck and get back to us. If you have questions on a few of these pieces let me know.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@scharnhorst1943

Another thing I forgot to mention is that even if there problems were prevalent in later editions, I never had a game like that because I hate using chips and therefore have a rule that the amount of units that can be used forceach power is the amount of pieces there are.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@general-6-stars

How viable are these values for future editions? Thank you!

[General 6 Stars]

Are you interested in any of these changes ?

[The Captain]

Interesting,

You might find inspiration at the House Rules section - look for Axis & Allies Global 1940 House Rules Expansion.

In this Expansion the Cost Of All Units section gives you a quick view of the number of units as well as their combat factor etc.

You’ll find it under The Captain’s Global 1940 House Rules Collection (sticked at the frontpage of the House Rules section).

You also might find inspiration at the Global 1943 House Rules Expansion.

Good luck:+1: