Carpet Bombing

[Trig]

Is anyone else somewhat dissatisfied with carpet bombing?
I am ok with the numbers, but believe that it should be extended to ships.
Historically, B-17s and Lancasters (strategic bombers) did conduct high altitude carpet bombing raids and ASW work. (The battle of the Bismarck sea and Tirpitz being two major examples.)
I think that applying carpet bombing to ships would allow for interesting raids, as well as some limited sub hunting.
If thought too powerful to hit a large cruiser and sink it without reply, then one could take the dice down -1.
Also, fighters on carriers can intercept.

Thoguhts?

[Chris_Henry]

When it comes to planes in this game, I tend to want to lean more towards a bit more historical realism. By that I mean, high level bombing/carpet bombing in WW2 was, by and large, extremely ineffective. And I don’t think should be amplified in game.

Yes, I’m sure everyone can hunt and pick some select instances of successful high level bombing against military formations (as opposed to stagnant facilities/cities). But overall, this was an extremely low efficiency attack. There’s a reason dive bombers/tactical bombers came into existence and heavy use in WW2. For example, I believe at Midway and the Coral Sea, B-17’s were found to have hit 1% of their targets. They were quickly considered not very suitable for that type of warfare.

The problem with high level bombing against targets like this is/was because the targets move. It was extremely hard to actually hit a moving target from the altitudes these heavier bombers were flying at. Hell, it was really hard for them to hit facilities/cities as well from that high even, and they weren’t even moving! The wind that high up comes in to play as well.

I personally struggle to even allow heavy bombers to carpet bomb units in game, if I’m being honest. I know from a game-play perspective it’s more fun to give them more options, but in historical context, it was not the overall norm for a heavy bomber to try and target units as opposed to buildings. Again, I know there’s individual circumstances where this happened. But in the grand scheme of the war on a game of this scale, I struggle to see how that can be shown in game with how little effectiveness it actually had!

To me, having Tactical bombers have target select already simulates pretty perfectly the abilities of planes to hit specific targets, but that might just be me! I think allowing medium bombers something like this maybe would make more sense, but not anything larger than that!

[Aldrahill]

Was just deliberating about that today - it feels like strat bombers are somewhat useless, or at least highly specialised and only worth building to replace specific losses.

They’re just used to hit facilities, or to hopefully hit something ina low chance carpet bombing, but they can’t actually fight in combat? Feels very… crappy, honestly.

[General 6 Stars]

Ha ha. Ya u could give them a one time drop on ground or facilities but seems nobody wants to change it along with Med bomber. IMO

[barnee]

@aldrahill I’m not real familiar with the game but … I’ll chime in anyway. :)

I like using @Black_Elk s A0 C5 bomber for the global game. Basically makes the Bombers strat bomb only and cheap enough to want to use them.

[General 6 Stars]

@barnee said in Carpet Bombing:

@aldrahill I’m not real familiar with the game but … I’ll chime in anyway. :)

I like using @Black_Elk s A0 C5 bomber for the global game. Basically makes the Bombers strat bomb only and cheap enough to want to use them.

Barnee. You sipping that Falstaff again ? !!! Lol

[barnee]

@gen-manstein heh heh bush lite

[Chris_Henry]

@barnee I think you’re right. I think it probably has to do with cost a bit more. I think a lot of the problem too though is just what @Aldrahill said above. I think a lot of people might find it “not worth it” for a plane that only attacks facilities. While I think there’s truth to that a little bit, I think it’s also an A&A mindset people need to get out of too. There’s value in bombing facilities in this game more so than A&A. That’s not to say there’s going to be whole fleets of strategic bombers built, but I think having some in your arsenal makes sense to wreck a Lend-Lease port, forward factory, an air base to scramble, etc.

[General 6 Stars]

Well they cost 8 in our game.

[insaneHoshi]

I think if you wanted to buff strategic bombers you could allow them to target multiple facilities in a turn. IE instead of 2d6 at one target, it could choose to do 1d3/6 to two targets.

[barnee]

not to derail things too much but we require an airbase and factory for air builds and same for naval with bombers and capital ships only being built at original factories.

so there’s more incentive to go after them. for example UK can only build air units in London at game start so it really encourages a German air strike.

But getting off track a bit so just a few ideas :)

[Aldrahill]

@barnee doesn’t that just make Britain’s first several turns absolutely awful in the war, just getting bombed mercilessly :P I guess they need to get some fighters asap, huh?

My big problem with the bombers is that you always have a 25% chance to just instantly lose them, and you need at a minimum one successful factory bombing to make them worth their cost :/

[barnee]

@aldrahill heh heh actually they need tac bombers because they can hunt subs, but I think I’ve derailed things enough here : )

Hopefully some day I can give this game a go. It’s got a lot of cool stuff.

[barnee]

@barnee also just having the threat to strike with these cheap bombers forces Germany to keep a significant Fighter presence to defend the Reich instead of having them beat on uncle joe.

[General 6 Stars]

@insanehoshi said in Carpet Bombing:

I think if you wanted to buff strategic bombers you could allow them to target multiple facilities in a turn. IE instead of 2d6 at one target, it could choose to do 1d3/6 to two targets.

That I have already mentioned.

[David '06]

@gen-manstein Maybe, if this isn’t coping what you said that for example, a strat bomber has 3 D6s to bomb a facility, you could use 1 D6 on the airbase, 1D6 one the factory, and 1 D6 on the rails. Basically , you chose to roll what dice for what targets

[General 6 Stars]

It’s close but only 2 targets and 2 d6