League General Discussion Thread

[dawgoneit]

@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:

I agree about BM (BM4?) should be the default game for the 2021 league.

But I still think P2V should have its own rankings and playoffs. The differences are too much.

i agree

[dawgoneit]

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

As for default game, I think it has to be the version that’s available to the world outside this site (out of the box version, basically) - we have very few players who refuse to play “balanced mod”, although of course it does happen, and I think it’s the way it should be… Makes more sense to force someone to play the “public” version than to force someone to play a mod, even if 95% of players only play that mod on this forum. It’s not welcoming to potential newcomers if they have to learn a different version of the game than they’ve been playing.

i agree

[simon33]

But how many players start playing the league expecting to get into the playoffs in the first year? I certainly didn’t, didn’t even enter my mind. I just wanted to play.

[AndrewAAGamer]

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

@farmboy said in League General Discussion Thread:

@Amon-Sul I think whoever does it first gets to bid first.

Oh yes, higher seed gets to bid first.

Just so I am clear higher seed means the higher number? So 7th seed versus 2nd seed the 7th seed would bid first. Correct?

[ksmckay]

no, other way around. higher seed means higher placed seed.

[ksmckay]

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

As for default game, I think it has to be the version that’s available to the world outside this site (out of the box version, basically) - we have very few players who refuse to play “balanced mod”, although of course it does happen, and I think it’s the way it should be… Makes more sense to force someone to play the “public” version than to force someone to play a mod, even if 95% of players only play that mod on this forum. It’s not welcoming to potential newcomers if they have to learn a different version of the game than they’ve been playing.

I completely disagree with this. All leagues of all kinds have their own rules. Playing in the league means you play by the league rules. As an example, you could say American football is a game with defined OOB rules. But every league out there has their own version of it. From kids to college to XFL to NFL. Rules arent defined by some accepted OOB format but by what the league decides.

The community that plays on this site is the league and is responsible for making rules that the league wants to play with. There is zero reason that has to be anything other than what the community wants. If someone wants to participate in the league, then they should be willing to adopt the rules of the league whether thats the actual rules of the game, definition of the league, bidding, disagreement handling, etc.

Most of the players in the top tier said they had no interest in playing OOB and would rather pass on the playoffs then be forced into playing it. To me that means there is a problem.

[AndrewAAGamer]

@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:

no, other way around. higher seed means higher placed seed.

Okay - so the lower number and higher seed bids first. Thanks!

[trulpen]

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

As for default game, I think it has to be the version that’s available to the world outside this site (out of the box version, basically) - we have very few players who refuse to play “balanced mod”, although of course it does happen, and I think it’s the way it should be… Makes more sense to force someone to play the “public” version than to force someone to play a mod, even if 95% of players only play that mod on this forum. It’s not welcoming to potential newcomers if they have to learn a different version of the game than they’ve been playing.

Actually, I don’t agree.

The default should be what is prefered by the players active in the league. The definition of what is prefered would logically have to be based on ratios and a majority context.

Of course, if there were like 50:50 or even 60:40 between the versions, OOB could very well still be considered as the rational choice of default. When it is perhaps 98:2 it simply doesn’t make sense.

The league is for the players participating, not for a non-defined world community. A player that enters the league has some initial learning to do anyway and eventually trying out BM3 will most likely be benificial for the ongoing playing experience.

That’s how I started anyway. Checked out the league. Seemed fun, so enlisted. My first 2 or 3 games were OOB and I was pretty sceptical about BM3 at first, but tried it out. Wasn’t convinced immediately, but after a few games I would never go back.

I’ve seen the same progress for quite many players now. Among them my good friend @Pejon_88.

[Colt45554]

The BM advocates seem adamant that almost the entire League and certainly the top players prefer BM. Is it really such a big deal then if OOB is default? It’s not like the playoff top dogs would ever want to play OOB so I don’t see the issue.

I’m a low-tier new Leaguer but for the record I agree with Gamer.

[oysteilo]

I agree with gamerman01 too

[ksmckay]

@Colt45554 Its been an issue in the playoffs the last 2 years minimum and it can easily/likely be an issue this year as well.

Saying it doesn’t matter is like saying all the league rules dont matter because everyone will always agree on what should be done. There is a disagreement in the league and the beginning of the year is the time to deal with it.

Its been said that rules can only be changed at the beginning of the year (despite rule changes being made in the middle of the year) so now is the time to deal with it.

[trulpen]

@Colt45554 said in League General Discussion Thread:

The BM advocates seem adamant that almost the entire League and certainly the top players prefer BM. Is it really such a big deal then if OOB is default? It’s not like the playoff top dogs would ever want to play OOB so I don’t see the issue.

I’m a low-tier new Leaguer but for the record I agree with Gamer.

Sorry to say, but you are wrong.

There’s actually a situation now in the A-playoff were one OOB-route will sort of upset the playoffs.

I’m not carrying any personal grudge, but just stating a fact that one of the eight players strongly prefers OOB and hence will play OOB. The other seven have lost their experience with OOB and will be at a serious disadvantage or even disinterest.

Anyway, this might be ok and acceptable, but not particularly fair since BM3 is the outmost played version among almost all of these players. Some have dabbled in P2V, myself included, but left it for now until it’s in a more stable state.

[dawgoneit]

gamer has a lot on his plate. i think what he decides should be.

[WindowWasher]

I think the flip a coin idea if there is a disagreement is the best middle ground between setting BM or OOB as defaults

[WindowWasher]

do play off games count toward 2021 rankings?

[simon33]

@WindowWasher said in League General Discussion Thread:

do play off games count toward 2021 rankings?

Yes.

[ksmckay]

@dawgoneit said in League General Discussion Thread:

gamer has a lot on his plate. i think what he decides should be.

No.

With no disrespect to Gamerman, he doesnt even play in the league.

I greatly appreciate everything Gamerman does (and he does a lot) but he doesnt own the league or define it, the players in the league do and so need to decide the rules of the league.

And all this talk about flipping a coin is silly.

We have two players in the top tier playoffs with a combined total of 1 league BM3 game. One of those players has exclusivley played P2V in this league and the other mostly OOB (one game BM3, one game P2V). Most of the other players have played zero league games of OOB in the last few years. The games are so different that forcing someone to play a different game is effectively an autoloss at the high level.

Most of the participants already stated they have no interest in playing a different version than what they normally play and arent interested in forcing another player to play a different game either.

This has been an issue for several years and particularly now that P2V has been released, it needs to be addressed.

[dawgoneit]

@ksmckay p2v needs its own league. way different.

[dawgoneit]

@dawgoneit how can i get people to join the league that play oob and tell them that they wont be playing the game they no. 2 of them i play on saturdays wont join because of the changes. isn’t getting people to join so we can keep the site going anyways. should we do seperate leagues?

[dawgoneit]

@dawgoneit if we can get people started then we can get them to try the other games