Ice Shelf Collapse Imminent?

[frimmel]

I found this interesting article and thought Jermo, U-505, Smacktard and others might also find it interesting.

Wilkins Ice Shelf set to collapse.

There is also a short video.

(edit: shorten title of thread)

[Funcioneta]

I think AGW negationists is not an accurate word. They don’t negate the climatic change, their point is that the man has no effect on it.

They have no idea of how clima works. It’s a mix of various factors that, combinated, create a balance. That balance is fragile and can be broken easily when a specie as ours change even a lone factor in that balance slightly.

We are changing many factors in a supershort amount of time. In geological scale, 100 years are less than a second.

And many resources are not eternal. We should change our economic sistem or they will end, climatic change or not.

Oh, this will get politics pretty soon  :-P

[frimmel]

I am simply pointing out an interesting story about ice.

I’ve found other interesting photos relating to this- http://www.esa.int/esaEO/SEMYBBSTGOF_index_0.html

[Imperious Leader]

This newly discovered planet is also facing global warming also caused by its sun.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/01/090128-exoplanets-hot-flashes.html

[Jennifer]

You all know where I stand on the issue.

BTW, ice shelves fall into the ocean on a pretty regular basis.  Kind of the planetary equivalent of a man losing an eye lash.  Yea, it happens.  Yea, you lost a wish if you didn’t catch it.  So what?

Simple fact most AGW proponents (most of which are not scientists) refuse to accept is that the climate of earth is not static.  December 23rd is not always 24 degrees F with 35% chance of snow in the midwest, USA.  It changes.  In fact, the midwest USA used to be a tropical forest and it used to be the bottom of the ocean.  It’s been covered under miles of ice and those miles of ice left the Great Lakes.  The sun is also not static.  It’s got a very active surface and flares as well as solar storms and other solar events can increase or decrease the temperature of our planet.  And our planetary orbit is also not static, we get closer and farther from the sun periodically.  And finally, all 9 (and yes, I refuse to disregard Pluto as a planet because some idiot council wanted to refuse status to Xena and Gabrielle as planets) of the planets are going to be lining up pretty as you please and we know that’s going to play havoc with our climate as well.  You think a speck of dust like the moon can cause changes, just imagine the damage that will be inflicted as the gravitational pull of the sun is contested by Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus and Pluto!

PS:  There are photos of ice shelves falling into the ocean from around the time of the invention of the camera as a self contained unit.

[frimmel]

@Cmdr:

PS:  There are photos of ice shelves falling into the ocean from around the time of the invention of the camera as a self contained unit.

Cool. Could you find some links for me?

@Cmdr:

You think a speck of dust like the moon can cause changes, just imagine the damage that will be inflicted as the gravitational pull of the sun is contested by Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus and Pluto!

Sarcasm right? You’re not trying to say the sun orbits the planets right? But that is as off topic as this:

@Imperious:

This newly discovered planet is also facing global warming also caused by its sun.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/01/090128-exoplanets-hot-flashes.html

Ummmm….  :?  What does a planet with an eccentric orbit have to do with ice shelves in Antarctica?  :?

[666]

I have bad news for you Frim.  :-(

If you hadn’t heard Ricardo M just passed away.  :cry:

He did play Kahn well!

[frimmel]

@JWW:

I have bad news for you Frim.   :-(

If you hadn’t heard Ricardo M just passed away.   :cry:

He did play Kahn well!

Yes, I’d heard. I was much saddened.

[Imperious Leader]

I have bad news for you Frim.  sad

If you hadn’t heard Ricardo M just passed away.  cry

He did play Kahn well!

Did he die because of global warming?  Rather the sun?

[frimmel]

@Imperious:

I have bad news for you Frim.   sad

If you hadn’t heard Ricardo M just passed away.   cry

He did play Kahn well!

Did he die because of global warming?  Rather the sun?

I believe he passed on due to old age. According to this at any rate.

I also found this interesting photo of the Wilkins Ice Shelf in 1992.

Compared to this one from the 28th of Jan, 2009.

[Imperious Leader]

Well w/o that ice shelf they should be able to locate some new dinosaur bones that died from the climate changes also caused by the sun.

[Jennifer]

IL, one shelf collapses while three others grow.  But growing shelves don’t support the religion, so they are not broadcast like the one that has grown too large and is now falling off.

Remember, these shelves are not over the land mass of Antarctica, they’re dangling off the end precariously.

And Frim:  I never hinted the sun moved anywhere.  But the planets ARE aligning and they WILL be pulling on the earth with compounded force contesting the sun’s pull on us. (Likewise earth pulls on them, but I daresay the mass of the earth is hardly comparable to the mass of Mars+Jupiter+Saturn+Uranus+Neptune+Pluto nor is it comparable to the mass of SOL+Mercury+Venus.)

I am drawing a comparison, however, to all those compounded effects to the relatively insignificant affects of the moon which is able to raise and lower the ocean in far greater magnitudes than the one or two inches prostelitized by Albert Gore Junior and his merry band of ministers if the ice caps melt.

If something as insignificantly small as the moon can cause such havoc on the earth, imagine the power of the sun alone and then imagine that power magnified by the planets aligning.  Oh, we are surely doomed!  DOOOMED!  Run for the hills, bury your heads in the sand, for the world will end!  The Mayans predicted it, the Inca’s predicted it, the Egyptians, Nostradamas and others have all predicted it!  Woe, woe, woe!

wink

BTW, if you buy all that tripe, please send your life savings to:

Community Activists for the Socialization of Humans
c/o Jennifer Christman-Honeycutt
274 East Plank Road
Burlington, IL 60109

Feel free to make the check out to the initials of the organization. (C.A.S.H.)  It’s for the PEOPLE!

[dinosaur]

I would rather folks not discuss global warming here at A&A.org because I like the folks here and I appreciate what I learn about the games and all that.  I fear that your differences of opinion will manifest itself in other threads and then I won’t enjoy those other topics as much.

Jen, I think you know I am no fan of “man made global warming” or what ever it is called, but I don’t think your argument that the planets alignment will cause phenomenal destruction is sound.  As I recall, the effect of a mass on another mass is proportional to the mass, but inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.  The moon has a profound effect on earth because it is extremely close by the standards of space where most distances are measured in light-years.  The sun also has a profound effect on us because its mass is greater than we can really comprehend.  The mass of the other planets combined with their distances away from us probably cause very little net effects on us.  I haven’t studied this carefully, but I do recall most of my basic physics and I just don’t think this is as big a deal as some would claim.  If you have a source that counters my opinion, I would like to check into it.

Anyway, I hope everyone here can be amicable in the other fora even if we have such strongly held views elsewhere.

[Imperious Leader]

I never hinted the sun moved anywhere.  But the planets ARE aligning and they WILL be pulling on the earth with compounded force contesting the sun’s pull on us. (Likewise earth pulls on them, but I daresay the mass of the earth is hardly comparable to the mass of Mars+Jupiter+Saturn+Uranus+Neptune+Pluto nor is it comparable to the mass of SOL+Mercury+Venus.)

I heard this too on AM coast to Coast with George Noory. I think the date is in 2012 Mayan Calendar thing that remains the next tour stop for the Y2K crowd and Martian A*** probe types. :-D

[Smacktard]

Actually, a majority of scientists believe man-made global warming is real: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/01/19/eco.globalwarmingsurvey/index.html

“Human-induced global warming is real, according to a recent U.S. survey based on the opinions of 3,146 scientists. However there remains divisions between climatologists and scientists from other areas of earth sciences as to the extent of human responsibility.”

…

"Two questions were key: Have mean global temperatures risen compared to pre-1800s levels, and has human activity been a significant factor in changing mean global temperatures?

About 90 percent of the scientists agreed with the first question and 82 percent the second.  The strongest consensus on the causes of global warming came from climatologists who are active in climate research, with 97 percent agreeing humans play a role.

Petroleum geologists and meteorologists were among the biggest doubters, with only 47 percent and 64 percent, respectively, believing in human involvement."

The only group that was not a majority were petroleum geologists, who do not study climate or the weather.

The kindest thing that could be said against man-made global warming is that our climate models are not accurate enough to pinpoint the cause. Maybe it’s a purely natural phenemenon. Even assuming that to be true, it doesn’t follow that we should do nothing. If it IS a purely natural phenemenon, and we reduce pollution, the worst that could be said is we sacrificed some worldwide GDP to make the world a cleaner place. If it is MAN-MADE, and we do nothing, the worst that could be said is we failed to prevent a potentially catastrophic change in climate. Do we really want to gamble with something as all-encompassing as the climate of the Earth? Are a few percentage points of GDP really that important?

[U-505]

@Cmdr:

BTW, ice shelves fall into the ocean on a pretty regular basis.  Kind of the planetary equivalent of a man losing an eye lash.

Yes, ice shelves that have existed for 10,000 years falling off Antarctica are the planetary equivalent of a man losing an eyelash. But, when nine ice shelves that have existed for 10,000 years fall off within 50 years of each other it’s the planetary equivalent of both of a man’s eyebrows completely falling off. Slight difference.

@Cmdr:

IL, one shelf collapses while three others grow.  But growing shelves don’t support the religion, so they are not broadcast like the one that has grown too large and is now falling off.

Did you just say that ice shelves are growing everywhere and that the reason that the Wilkins ice shelf is about to break off is because it grew too large?!

Are you playing a game where you try to post the most outrageously smelly load of garbage just to see if you can get it past us?

Remember, these shelves are not over the land mass of Antarctica, they’re dangling off the end precariously.

Being connected to the land ice by a 2km strip IS precarious. Being connected to the land ice 50 years ago by a 100km strip IS NOT precarious. 98km of Antarctic ice eroding in 50 years isn’t the planetary equivalent of anything. It’s unnatural.

@Smacktard:

Are a few percentage points of GDP really that important?

To the people who would profit from that GDP, absolutely. Human greed knows no bounds and, sadly, is much more powerful than wisdom and common sense.

[frimmel]

@Cmdr:

IL, one shelf collapses while three others grow.  But growing shelves don’t support the religion, so they are not broadcast like the one that has grown too large and is now falling off.

Remember, these shelves are not over the land mass of Antarctica, they’re dangling off the end precariously.

According to my first linked story the ice shelf in question has exsisted for 10,000 years which hardly suggests precarious.

@Cmdr:

And Frim:  I never hinted the sun moved anywhere.  But the planets ARE aligning and they WILL be pulling on the earth with compounded force contesting the sun’s pull on us. (Likewise earth pulls on them, but I daresay the mass of the earth is hardly comparable to the mass of Mars+Jupiter+Saturn+Uranus+Neptune+Pluto nor is it comparable to the mass of SOL+Mercury+Venus.)

I am drawing a comparison, however, to all those compounded effects to the relatively insignificant affects of the moon which is able to raise and lower the ocean in far greater magnitudes than the one or two inches prostelitized by Albert Gore Junior and his merry band of ministers if the ice caps melt.

Okay, on the planets but you certainly seem to be trying to fudge or obfuscate both Einstein’s and Newton’s theories of gravity. I would be content to let that drop as dinosaur addressed it and I was pointing out an interesting story about an Ice Shelf.

The moon creates the tides which are different than sea level. The tide will come in and go out regardless of sea level. Organisms living near oceans will of course find that high tide comes up the beach further and that low tide won’t be as low as sea level rises.

According to the articles I linked earlier this particular Ice shelf won’t bring sea level up because it is already floating or was floating on the sea. I have looked at many stories about the Wilkins Ice Shelf. It began collapsing during the Antarctic summer in 2008 (the height summer 2009 in the Antarctic has not yet arrived) and continued breaking up even in the Antarctic winter.

It seems quite unlikely it will last till the end of March. I expect if we watch the ESA site providing several of the photos I’ve linked the next photo we see will be of the ice bridge having broke off completely.

[Jennifer]

I was trying to be as funny as man-made global warming conspiracists guys.  For instance, when all 9 planets align with the sun and the black hole in the middle of the Milky Way Galaxy a door will be opened to another dimension and demons will poor out of it like locusts inflicting pain and suffering on all man kind.

---

BTW, I find it hilarious that Mr. Smacktard yet again shows up only after I’ve posted and not in a game or discussion about a game but in a pseudo-political thread….if I didn’t know better, I’d think he was trolling.

[Imperious Leader]

Well at least he didn’t just quote you like he does in 99% of his posts. He tried to just put out his idea even if its kinda political.

I don’t know about trolling, but if thats the case don’t feed the bears

[Jennifer]

Anyway, why does it seem any day in Winter that gets into the low 40s is heralded as proof positive that man-made global warming is real but entire months in the summer that used to be in the upper 90s, lower 100s that don’t even get into the 90s anymore is not proof positive that man-made global warming does not exist?

Hmm, interesting that….