Scramble and order of loss? Going to roll the dice since I am the underdog…
Also will edit the misclicked fighter to click Greece instead of playing around in SZ101
L20 cyanight(axis) vs farmboy(Allies+16) BM3.3
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I suppose I might want to rethink the Soviet ncm if that is what you wanted to do. Not sure I’d want to leave those mechs, armor exposed there.
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@farmboy I completely understand. I don’t think I ever paid attention to neutral powers vs neutral territory. TripleA treats the Strict neutrals like a neutral power allowing you to declare war on them. Attacking a neutral territory doesn’t make it not neutral. All it does is change the type of neutrality if it was a strict neutral.
This does change things. I agree with you. This is a normal tactic I have seen many players use. I remember AD beating me because of this exact move. He declared war on Neutrals and flew planes from Russia to India. Anyways this is new to me but like I said I don’t think I paid attention to the way Neutral Territories were described in the rules.
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@cyanight I stand corrected that game I spoke about with AD - he did take Afghanistan. I guess I didn’t pay attention, lol
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TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Japanese round 11
TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4.0
Game History
Round: 11 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 2 armour, 2 destroyers, 1 factory_minor, 5 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; Politics - Japanese Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Chile Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Argentina Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Venezuela Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Sweden Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Switzerland Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Spain Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Portugal Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Turkey Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Saudi Arabia Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Afghanistan Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Mozambique Trigger Japanese Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttachment attached to Angola Combat Move - Japanese 1 unit repaired. 3 tactical_bombers moved from Western Australia to 55 Sea Zone 3 tactical_bombers moved from Western Australia to 46 Sea Zone 5 fighters moved from 54 Sea Zone to 49 Sea Zone 3 fighters moved from 54 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from 54 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from New South Wales to 62 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 62 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from 63 Sea Zone to New Zealand 1 infantry moved from Queensland to Northern Territory Japanese take Northern Territory from ANZAC 1 submarine moved from 41 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone 2 bombers moved from Western Australia to 38 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from French Indo China to 43 Sea Zone 2 bombers moved from French Indo China to 38 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from French Indo China to 42 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from French Indo China to Shan State 2 fighters moved from French Indo China to Shan State 2 infantry moved from French Indo China to Siam 2 fighters moved from French Indo China to Siam 2 infantry moved from Shantung to Jehol 1 fighter moved from Japan to Jehol Combat - Japanese Battle in New Zealand Battle in 43 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 fighter Americans defend with 1 transport 1 transport owned by the Americans lost in 43 Sea Zone Japanese win, taking New Zealand from ANZAC with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for Americans: 1 transport Battle in 42 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 bomber British defend with 1 transport 1 transport owned by the British lost in 42 Sea Zone Japanese win with 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for British: 1 transport Battle in 38 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 4 bombers and 1 submarine Americans defend with 1 cruiser and 1 transport Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 38 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 4 bombers in 38 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/4 hits, 2.67 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 cruiser and 1 transport in 38 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits 1 cruiser owned by the Americans, 1 submarine owned by the Japanese and 1 transport owned by the Americans lost in 38 Sea Zone Japanese win with 4 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 13 Casualties for Japanese: 1 submarine Casualties for Americans: 1 cruiser and 1 transport Battle in 46 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers Americans defend with 1 destroyer Japanese roll dice for 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers in 46 Sea Zone, round 2 : 4/6 hits, 3.50 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 46 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in 46 Sea Zone Japanese win with 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer Battle in Siam Japanese attack with 2 fighters and 2 infantry British defend with 1 mech_infantry Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Siam, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits UK_Pacific roll dice for 1 mech_infantry in Siam, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 mech_infantry owned by the British lost in Siam Japanese win, taking Siam from UK_Pacific with 2 fighters and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4 Casualties for British: 1 mech_infantry Battle in 55 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 2 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers Americans defend with 1 destroyer and 1 submarine 1 submarine owned by the Americans Submerged Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers in 55 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 2.83 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 55 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in 55 Sea Zone Japanese win with 2 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer Battle in Jehol Japanese attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry Russians defend with 1 infantry Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Jehol, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Jehol, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Jehol Japanese win, taking Jehol from Chinese with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry Battle in Shan State Japanese attack with 2 fighters and 2 infantry Americans defend with 1 infantry and 1 marine Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Shan State, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits UK_Pacific roll dice for 1 infantry and 1 marine in Shan State, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits 2 infantry owned by the Japanese and 1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Shan State Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters in Shan State, round 3 : 2/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits UK_Pacific roll dice for 1 marine in Shan State, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 marine owned by the Americans lost in Shan State Japanese win with 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2 Casualties for Japanese: 2 infantry Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry and 1 marine Battle in 49 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 5 fighters Americans defend with 1 destroyer Japanese roll dice for 5 fighters in 49 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 2.50 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 49 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 fighter owned by the Japanese and 1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in 49 Sea Zone Japanese win with 4 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -2 Casualties for Japanese: 1 fighter Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer Non Combat Move - Japanese 4 fighters moved from 49 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Western Australia to Queensland 2 fighters moved from 55 Sea Zone to Queensland 3 tactical_bombers moved from 55 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from 46 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 46 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone 3 tactical_bombers moved from 46 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone 3 tactical_bombers moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland 1 bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to French Indo China 2 fighters moved from Shan State to French Indo China 1 fighter moved from 43 Sea Zone to French Indo China 1 mech_infantry moved from Shantung to Hunan 1 fighter moved from Jehol to Hunan 1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Shensi 1 infantry moved from Chahar to Suiyuyan 1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Chahar 1 infantry moved from Hopei to Shensi 1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Hopei 1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Shensi 1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Kweichow 3 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Anhwe 2 fighters moved from Siam to French Indo China 4 bombers moved from 38 Sea Zone to French Indo China 1 fighter moved from French Indo China to Japan Place Units - Japanese 1 destroyer placed in 6 Sea Zone 1 factory_minor placed in Queensland 1 destroyer placed in 62 Sea Zone 2 armour placed in New South Wales 1 mech_infantry placed in French Indo China 3 infantry placed in Kiangsu 2 infantry placed in Shantung Turn Complete - Japanese Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 14 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 20 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,1 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 19 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,6,2,4 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 6 Sea Zone. Rolls: 2,5,6,1,2,6,1,5,1,4,4,6,1,1,3,1,1,5,5,2,3,4,2,2,3,3,6,3,1 Japanese collect 30 PUs (14 lost to blockades); end with 31 PUs Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 34 PUs Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 39 PUs Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Yunnan: 15 mech_infantrys EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from French Indo China: 15 mech_infantrys EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Shensi: 3 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Anhwe: 3 infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit ModeCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Chinese regular : -0.33 Americans regular : 0.50 Japanese regular : 0.67 UK_Pacific regular : 0.67 -
@cyanight Please use latest file from Japan. I forgot a noncombat and changed another
As for Russia I guess you cannot fly the fighter from Moscow. You can put your inf back and remove the neutral declaration.
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@farmboy said in L20 cyanight(axis) vs farmboy(Allies+16) BM3.3:
I don’t think I’ve typically played this here the way the rules intend. We would actually need to edit out all the neutral inf in afghanistan and then edit in inf of the power of your choice. I’m fine with that actually, if you wanted to do that and adjust Japan’s turn (if that was the power you chose).
In the board game, you need a way to show that there are fewer inf than the graphics indicate. so if you attack afghanistan with russia and kill 1 inf, and then retreat, you need a way to indicate that there are three left for the rest of the game (and that it is in the new non neutral state). So the rules tell you to take any powers inf units (since in the board game there are no neutral colored units). But they are still independent regardless of what color pieces you use. They cant go anywhere or do anything. Opposing power can attack them at a later time or an allied power can ncm a land unit in and grab them same as if they were still friendly neutral. Only difference is that air units can fly over the territory.
If the attack upon the formerly neutral territory is
unsuccessful (the territory is not captured), any remaining
defending units stay in the territory but can’t move. The
territory remains uncontrolled (place a national control
marker on it face down to indicate its new status), but units
from the side it’s now allied with can move into it and take
control of it and its remaining units in the same way as if it
were a friendly neutral.TripleA makes the replacing with power of your choice unnecessary, since tripleA has neutral unit graphics. And tripleA makes you DOW on neutrals just to make game mechanics easier (converting all strict neutrals into friendly neutrals or unfriendly neutrals). Its not a rule, just something that makes it easier for tripleA to deal with how it allows or disallows certain things. And a reminder, that tripleA still messes up quite a few of the neutral rules about flying over (unless its fixed in latest version).
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@cyanight said in L20 cyanight(axis) vs farmboy(Allies+16) BM3.3:
Attacking a neutral territory doesn’t make it not neutral. All it does is change the type of neutrality if it was a strict neutral.
It does though. It says in rules, it makes it allied with opposite power. It becomes its own independent power. But it cant move. But the neutral rules about air units flying over it go away. But those units cant do anything. And same as friendly neutrals, friendly real powers can NCM in and take control of the units. Its not neutral though. But every other territory that hasnt been attacked is still neutral, even if its friendly or unfriendly neutral.
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So in this case, afghanistan becomes non neutral, 3 or 4 units remain there that cant move, but anybody can fly over it since its not neutral. Allies can attack it or axis can NCM a unit and take control. This is assuming russia attacked with 1 inf. Then the russian ftr can fly over it during NCM (as can any other power).
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Thanks @ksmckay . I think I’m finally approaching clarity here.
So it looks to me that we can go ahead with this with the adjustments from the combat in Afghanistan. But @cyanight if you want us to get a ruling from gamerman to be sure, we can do that too. Obviously, the number of air I can have in India could be quite consequential for your next set of turns. And it is not just the Soviet fighter but potentially the US fighters in the Urals that are impacted by this.
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@farmboy I agree it is very important to get correct and will have a factor on the game. Lets just wait for Gamerman. Has anyone notified him yet?
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TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 11
TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4.0
Game History
Round: 11 Purchase Units - Americans Americans buy 1 armour, 7 fighters, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; Politics - Americans Trigger Americans War TrueNeutral: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War Combat Move - Americans Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Neutral_True from Afghanistan: 1 infantry EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Novosibirsk: 1 infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland Americans take Finland from Germans 1 infantry moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux 4 carriers, 1 destroyer, 2 fighters, 3 submarines and 2 transports moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 55 Sea Zone to 63 Sea ZoneCombat Hit Differential Summary :
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@cyanight nope but I will do so now.
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@Gamerman. We have a neutral question. I, as allies, declare war on neutrals, attack Afghanistan, but fail to take it. Can I then fly over it with the allied air as an NCM or do I have to wait until it is conquered by the allies before I can travel through that air space?
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@farmboy said in L20 cyanight(axis) vs farmboy(Allies+16) BM3.3:
@Gamerman. We have a neutral question. I, as allies, declare war on neutrals, attack Afghanistan, but fail to take it. Can I then fly over it with the allied air as an NCM or do I have to wait until it is conquered by the allies before I can travel through that air space?
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@cyanight note that I posted my move below on the assumption I was reading the rules right and because I had time to kill. The main thing was a scramble question for 6. Obviously we can wait until we hear from Gamerman and this would likely change a bit if I have it wrong.
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@Adam514 We have a neutral question. I, as allies, declare war on neutrals, attack Afghanistan, but fail to take it. Can I then fly over it with the allied air as an NCM or do I have to wait until it is conquered by the allies or axis before I can travel through that air space?
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@farmboy You can, as soon as any territory is attacked, it can be flown over by any side.
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@farmboy Sure lets continue
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@cyanight No Scramble in 6
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