WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion

[ksmckay]

Oh wow, sorry, I am an idiot. I was focused on that little blob and didnt realize the black sea is two sea zones. Sorry :(

[regularkid]

@ksmckay yes, Rostov touches SZ 103

[CaptainNapalm]

@trulpen Here is where one of the creators mentioned the lone AA gun.

@regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@ksmckay great questions. Addressing them in turn:

Germany Caucasus objective, assume its control of both north and south Cacausus?

The Caucasus objective applies only to Southern Caucasus. This will be clarified in a subsequent patch to the objectives panel.

Can you explain scramble to land better? Does this mean air in Wger can scramble to defend a land attack in Germany?

Yes. West Germany can scramble to defend Germany, as long as there is at least one defending unit already in Germany (including a lone AA gun). Note that France’s airbase is now actually useful, since it can be used to scramble in defense of Normandy, Holland, Southern France, and Western Germany.

Carrier scramble - 1 per carrier right? And as a follow up to previous question, a ftr on carrier in z116 could scramble to defend Norway, Denmark, Wger, or Ger as well as adjancent sea zones?

Yes. One plane per carrier. And a carrier in sz 116 can indeed do all that. For the land territories, there must be at least one defending unit already in the territory.

Can you comment on civil war and great purge - are those one time penalties?

Yes, it is a onetime penalty that only affects starting income.

Is it correct that there is no convoy in 43?

Correct. There is no convoy in sz 43.

[regularkid]

Hey folks! Version 4.0 of Path to Victory is ready for download on TripleA (delete your existing copy of the map and reinstall. The map is backwards compatible with older saved games).

The substantive changes:

1. Carriers reduced to 1 defense. May no longer scramble to empty sea zones (must be a defending surface warship present - player enforced)

2. New global victory conditions for Axis. In addition to the existing theater specific victory conditions, Axis can now also win by taking and holding for one round 13 victory cities, globally.

3. A U.S. marine has been added to Hawaii.

Enjoy!

[axis-dominion]

@regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

Hey folks! Version 4.0 of Path to Victory is ready for download on TripleA (delete your existing copy of the map and reinstall. The map is backwards compatible with older saved games).

The substantive changes:

1. Carriers reduced to 1 defense. May no longer scramble to empty sea zones (must be a defending surface warship present - player enforced)

2. New global victory conditions for Axis. In addition to the existing theater specific victory conditions, Axis can now also win by taking and holding for one round 13 victory cities, globally.

3. A U.S. marine has been added to Hawaii.

Enjoy!

well, cool! I’m still on v1 I think, and have lost track actually. I think by the time I’m done with my first games with v1, it’ll be a whole different game ;)

[regularkid]

@axis-dominion haha. the pains of being an early adopter.

Actually, it was one of your comments/suggestions that inspired the decision to change carrier mechanics. So YOU did this to yourself, Axis…

Keep that feedback coming. It’s very much appreciated and helpful.

[axis-dominion]

@regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@axis-dominion haha. the pains of being an early adopter.

Actually, it was one of your comments/suggestions that inspired the decision to change carrier mechanics. So YOU did this to yourself, Axis…

Keep that feedback coming. It’s very much appreciated and helpful.

oh haha, that was all Adam actually, I was wanting them nerfed even more, like limiting the carrier scrambling as I think it’s a bit too much, and given the carrier-scrambling ability, I can’t imagine anyone bothering with cruisers and battleships, despite the reduced cost. carrier scrambling is just so huge honestly.

[axis-dominion]

@axis-dominion said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@axis-dominion haha. the pains of being an early adopter.

Actually, it was one of your comments/suggestions that inspired the decision to change carrier mechanics. So YOU did this to yourself, Axis…

Keep that feedback coming. It’s very much appreciated and helpful.

oh haha, that was all Adam actually, I was wanting them nerfed even more, like limiting the carrier scrambling as I think it’s a bit too much, and given the carrier-scrambling ability, I can’t imagine anyone bothering with cruisers and battleships, despite the reduced cost. carrier scrambling is just so huge honestly.

my specific suggestions were to either:

1. limit to no more than 3 air scrambling from a sz
   OR
2. limit to the number of land or sea units that are being defended, so if there’s just one dude or dd, for example, then only one air could be scrambled to defend it (from a given sea zone)

[trulpen]

@axis-dominion said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

2. limit to the number of land or sea units that are being defended, so if there’s just one dude or dd, for example, then only one air could be scrambled to defend it (from a given sea zone)

I think the same should in that case apply for land-scrambling.

[Adam514]

The issue with the land scrambling limit is that makes it significantly harder to stack islands, something the US already has trouble with.

[trulpen]

I was actually referring to land-to-land.

[Adam514]

@trulpen That could be interesting yeah.

[trulpen]

As it is now skirmishes are heavily reduced.

I’m thinking one strategy for G could be, although pretty expensive, to put up an ab in Saratov, Vologda and S Belarus respectively.

Russia would be pretty much jailed in, only affording to hit one area. Of course, G has to be able to complete the feat of containing the commies as first base.

The same goes with Normandie and Holland. Keeping 3 fig in Paris is very strong now. Maybe not bad in that instance though.

Well, the Allies does have some trumps at hand, like a super-strong Russia.

[Gargantua]

Great work on this guys! Just seeing the rule set for first time now.

Lots of these ideas were a long time coming. Love the effort!!!

But there is still one MAJOR flaw I hope you can fix…

Liberation of Paris… when recapturing Paris away from axis… it should be the liberating powers OPTION to liberate France, during every purchase units phase.

As things are, despite any of the mods we have ever seen we still have the super gimmicky/gamey issue of not being able really enter Paris for the sake that the allies will be so logistically punished for it with loss of frontline factories and IPCs Etc. Only to have Germany being able to totally ignore defending it, and subsequently take it back denying alll the allied efforts in France to date becuase they can’t use those French territories for production.

A “real” France campaign is still off the table. Instead every battle for France is a jokes on Paris episode.

PLEASE FIX THIS ISSUE ;) from the bottom of my dark heart

[Gargantua]

Hell to simply

Just give a button that says “liberate nation” in the politics phase. And any allied owner of Paris can do that for France when it pleases.

[Adam514]

@Gargantua The Allies did delay taking Paris even though they could have earlier in the real war. There are situations where taking Paris back is advisable, and it is useful to the Germans because of the factory and the airbase. Fast units are more expensive to mass just for defense too. If we give the option of liberating France, it would never be liberated and would be kept in US/UK hands.

[regularkid]

Hey Gargantua, I definitely see where you are coming from about France.

Although PTV and BM both remove substantial disincentives to liberating france (e.g., eliminating the repeat-capital-plunder dynamic of G40, adding US NOs for mere presence in Normandy, etc.), it remains the case that France is all-too-frequently seen as a no-go zone for the Allies until after the fate of Western Europe is already decided.

One way to help rectify this problem would be to give France a national objective (for example, +5 for controlling France, Normandy, Southern France), putting more Allied income on the table for a liberated France, than without it.

I am apprehensive about the idea of a “liberate” button for France, both because of the coding challenges it would present, and because it introduces yet another faction-specific dynamic, which we generally try to avoid unless necessary.

I have added the proposal of the French NO to the list of ideas for us to consider in version 5 of the map.

[ksmckay]

@regularkid can France use it’s 12 ipc bonus for liberation to repair bases? Perhaps not in the past but might be a nice add considering the potential value of the Paris airbase. Otherwise it’s a potentially long delay for damaged French bases and another disincentive to taking Paris.

[General 6 Stars]

No interest in having IC destroyed in Paris and Normandy when Ger captures ? Then when allies liberate give them 4-6 inf placed in Paris so allies can buy an ic and hold it or
The ic in Paris and Normandy is Destroyed on Ger capture and when allies liberate maybe give Paris a ic and 4-6 inf.
It’s just how far u want to go here in game changes

Or looks like a NO of 12 icps if Normandy liberated ? Then give allies another NO for liberating Paris one time in game. But money needs to stay in Atlantic side or France

[Gargantua]

@Adam514 said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@Gargantua The Allies did delay taking Paris even though they could have earlier in the real war. There are situations where taking Paris back is advisable, and it is useful to the Germans because of the factory and the airbase. Fast units are more expensive to mass just for defense too. If we give the option of liberating France, it would never be liberated and would be kept in US/UK hands.

The irony of this argument is, as is, Paris doesn’t get liberated.

It’s just awkwardly ignored by both parties, save the rather rare situations it’s “advisable”. Which is exactly what I am suggesting we avoid.

And in terms of historical reality, the French government (4th republic) was not actually re-established until AFTER the war In 1946. Prior to that it was simply DeGaulles provisional govt under US/UK protection, which is essentially what I am proposing.

I’m glad we are having a discussion about this issue because it’s been glaring for a decade :)

Maybe the “free men” bonus could be adjusted in a way to make liberating it more common or desired. If people got 10 free inf they might do it. Or maybe after Paris is liberated first time, any French Controlled factories get free infantry or something. Whether they have an income or not.

Or perhaps USA or UK can use French controlled factories.

Or via the Vichy shift, perhaps French territories can be treated like dutch ones, activateable by allies on NCM. If Paris is recaptured, French territories will then revert to whichever allied powers are in those territories. On their non combat turns.

Either way… we ought to try to break up this gimmick