Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

[Omega1759]

Hi Trulpen, may want to consider strategy against Japan:

1. US supports Pacific enough to protect Hawaii and Australia in the long run and as cheaply as possible with a defensive fleet + air bases, troops and fighter aircraft while harassing the money Islands / forcing Japan to contest. This probably still requires 60%-65% Pacific. In that scenario, the 35%-40% Atlantic helps the UK reinforce India through the Europe side of the map. Rationale is that the US can more directly influence the Atlantic theater than the Pacific theater, UK can more easily help India through the middle East.

2. US really tries hard to go after Japan in which case Japan can probably still hold off the US while probably still taking India (Japan can beef up their fleet / scale pretty easily for as long as they are not heavily contested on the continent, which is the case with the current bid).

A mobile force of bombers can pivot from one side of the map to another very quickly. It’s certainly superior to a navy because it’s mobile, can strike hard a both land and naval forces. I’m not saying to not build navy at all, but the US simply can’t catch up to utterly destroy the Japanese Navy in a timely fashion when it goes in a defensive position.

[oysteilo]

@Omega1759 said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

Hi Trulpen, may want to consider strategy against Japan:

1. US supports Pacific enough to protect Hawaii and Australia in the long run and as cheaply as possible with a defensive fleet + air bases, troops and fighter aircraft while harassing the money Islands / forcing Japan to contest. This probably still requires 60%-65% Pacific. In that scenario, the 35%-40% Atlantic helps the UK reinforce India through the Europe side of the map. Rationale is that the US can more directly influence the Atlantic theater than the Pacific theater, UK can more easily help India through the middle East.

2. US really tries hard to go after Japan in which case Japan can probably still hold off the US while probably still taking India (Japan can beef up their fleet / scale pretty easily for as long as they are not heavily contested on the continent, which is the case with the current bid).

A mobile force of bombers can pivot from one side of the map to another very quickly. It’s certainly superior to a navy because it’s mobile, can strike hard a both land and naval forces. I’m not saying to not build navy at all, but the US simply can’t catch up to utterly destroy the Japanese Navy in a timely fashion when it goes in a defensive position.

A 35% USA Atlantis approach is hardly enough to deny Germany to putting pressure or even capture british factories in the ME. How is this prevented? It helps somewhat if the factory is built in Iraq, but still very volunarble if the purpose is to beef up India. It’s very costly to out 3 mechs here every round. It certainly requrie an Egypt factory as well

[trulpen]

@Omega1759 said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

Hi Trulpen, may want to consider strategy against Japan:

1. US supports Pacific enough to protect Hawaii and Australia in the long run and as cheaply as possible with a defensive fleet + air bases, troops and fighter aircraft while harassing the money Islands / forcing Japan to contest. This probably still requires 60%-65% Pacific. In that scenario, the 35%-40% Atlantic helps the UK reinforce India through the Europe side of the map. Rationale is that the US can more directly influence the Atlantic theater than the Pacific theater, UK can more easily help India through the middle East.

2. US really tries hard to go after Japan in which case Japan can probably still hold off the US while probably still taking India (Japan can beef up their fleet / scale pretty easily for as long as they are not heavily contested on the continent, which is the case with the current bid).

A mobile force of bombers can pivot from one side of the map to another very quickly. It’s certainly superior to a navy because it’s mobile, can strike hard a both land and naval forces. I’m not saying to not build navy at all, but the US simply can’t catch up to utterly destroy the Japanese Navy in a timely fashion when it goes in a defensive position.

Thanks for the input! Bombers are great, but expensive. Also they are not so mobile in the Pac unless there are landing-spots. If Japan is too strong in relation to US there, it will simply be denied.

My aim is is not directly to obliterate the japanese navy, but rather as quickly as possible have enough defensive force not to risk annihilation. We want to fight for the islands, primarily DEI, but also the Carolines and the ones around it for strategical reasons, and try for a lucrative landing somewhere, preferably Korea.

I think we won’t have time to protect Calcutta anyway, except for extra air. I don’t like to put bombers on the line for defence. Sometimes it’s necessary, but it’s a lot of resources that can easily be spoiled for nothing.

[trulpenplay]

TripleA Turn Summary: Americans round 1

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 2 carriers, 1 destroyer and 2 submarines; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Eastern United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Central: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Central United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Western: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Western United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Eastern United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Central: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Central United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Western: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Western United States

    Combat Move - Americans
        Trigger Americans Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared  for rulesAttachment attached to Americans

    Non Combat Move - Americans
        1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 26 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 26 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland
        1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Western United States to Hawaiian Islands
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        1 artillery moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
        1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Western United States to Central United States
        2 aaGuns moved from Western United States to Central United States
        2 aaGuns, 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Eastern United States to Central United States
        1 armour moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
        1 armour and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 86 Sea Zone
        1 armour moved from 86 Sea Zone to Brazil
              Americans take Brazil from Neutral_Allies
        1 cruiser moved from 101 Sea Zone to 51 Sea Zone
        1 bomber moved from Central United States to United Kingdom
        1 fighter moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
        1 fighter moved from Eastern United States to 26 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland

    Place Units - Americans
        2 carriers, 1 destroyer and 2 submarines placed in 10 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 52 PUs; end with 52 PUs
        Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 62 PUs
        Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 67 PUs
        Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 72 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

[trulpen]

No more input, I proceed with the plan presented.

[trulpenplay]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Chinese round 1

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Chinese
        Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
        Chinese buy 4 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Chinese
        1 infantry moved from Hunan to Kiangsi
              Chinese take Kiangsi from Japanese
        1 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
        2 infantry moved from Kweichow to Yunnan
        1 fighter moved from Szechwan to Yunnan

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

[trulpen]

Here’s the question for you. 3, 4 or 9 inf in the attack on Yunnan?

I want to be greedy, but it’s important to get hold of Yunnan. Anything there will be in high risk of getting wiped out.

Of course, Japan only has 2 inf at their disposal, so it could be costly hitting 13-15 inf, 2 fig, 1 tac. Around -25 to -35 TUV expected, but 90-95 % winning chance for the attacker. Likely a lot of valuable air lost, which I don’t think Japan can afford.

If losing 2 inf in Yunnan, it’s still a -20 TUV expected for hitting the stack.

Here I’m actually not confident if Kiangsi should be taken. The inf might be of better use in Yunnan. Yes, Yunnan should likely be maximized.

What say you?

[trulpenplay]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Chinese round 1

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Chinese
        Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
        Chinese buy 4 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Chinese
        1 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
        2 infantry moved from Kweichow to Yunnan
        1 fighter moved from Szechwan to Yunnan
        1 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
        6 infantry moved from Szechwan to Yunnan

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

[trulpen]

Now it’s perhaps unfortunate that the russian air is in Leningrad and not Moscow…

[farmboy]

@trulpen I think if your plan is to dump the British units in range in (air included) and to put the placement there as well, it is probably worth it. There is some risk to you as well if he decides to go for it (if the dice are poor) but on average he is trading half his air force for a couple of British air and Chinese ground units). The TUV exchange favours you significantly. And you would have a 2-5% chance of winning outright. I don’t think that is a risk that will usually pay off for Japan. It makes more sense for him to wait until more ground units can reach. There may be an issue of how badly you need those UK air to go to Egypt, but on the face of it I think it is worth it.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@farmboy I agree that you have to force the battle in Yunnan by stacking with the UK forces. Japan should win, but it will cost a fair bit of his Air Force (about 11-12 planes) that will make it challenging to win in the Pacific.

You will have to do the math to see if it can hold out on J3 if you add even more British and Russian forces. My hunch is that you will be forced to retreat after this lucrative turn.

[farmboy]

@trulpen realized that I’m just parroting your proposal down here after the fact. Read the first line and then looked at the map and then commented.

And @Arthur-Bomber-Harris I suspect it will be hard to hold it on J3, but even 1 turn can make a huge difference here I think.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@farmboy agreed that holding Yunnan on J2 is a huge benefit because you can purchase Art that makes your stack so much more potent. You also don’t sacrifice a couple of soldiers that are normally required for that turn. Eventually the China stack can make its way up to Northeast China around turn 8 and join up with Allied reinforcements.

[oysteilo]

so far, i have not followed the discussion in detail

1. German buys are sound. But I am fairly certain that Germany should hit yugo. Now, Italy is left with too much to do. Also one tac should go to Paris. Its fundamental for Germany to conservere air in a game like this, so i understand it, but still I think 1 tac to france is worth it
2. Against that German buy I would buy 12 inf as well. You can always buy art later and you can never hold belarus G4 whatever you are doing
3. I think J1DOW is fairly risky in this game considering the bid. I also think a 2 transports and 1 factory is a stronger buy in this situation. Its not a disaster to control DEI for the first time in J3. Also only 1 inf should go to cahar J1, everything else to Anhwe (for the attack on Yunnan J3)
4. China and the British should stack everything in Yunnan now. If Japan goes for it they need a miracle and will lose many planes. Too costly in a high bid game. It is possible to get by with this in a low bid game
5. All in all, allied position looks solid

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@oysteilo I am a fan of J1DOW in OOB games. It puts so much pressure on India and gives time for Japan to capture all of the islands before the American fleet arrives. With the J1DOW, the 3 transports have the advantage of providing extra pressure on India by J3. That will force the UK Pacific forces to retreat back to their capitol instead of enjoying a vacation in Yunnan.

I am not used to a J1 that ignores Hunan and allows China+India to stack Yunnan. I am curious if India strafes the infantry on French Indochina on UK1, is it possible to hold Yunnan still on J3?

[surfer]

Just an observation and since it’s late no one to blame but me. But if the Japanese want to take the fleet at Queensland they can. Even with all the other units + BB.
Land troops in N Territory and move other units into place. If the Hawaii fleet tries to stop, they will be annihilated. and the take down of Australia can commence. It may not be optimal, but with all other fleets removed. Japan will have time to rebuild in Australia.

The best counter to this could be take Sumatra and push India to Burma next turn…do it now invites a J4 India takedown if the Burma stack is wiped out. Regardless, India needs to grow while Japan is occupied.

I would have kept the US forces in Hawaii one turn.

This is why I hate fighting the Japanese. they have too much flexibility early in the game.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Surfer, those issues would have been avoided if 2 American fighters had flown to Queensland on US1. I don’t know why they stayed behind in Hawaii unless you want to threaten moving into the Japan Sea.

[trulpen]

Haven’t looked closely, but isn’t that a bad trade for Japan? Anything that stays will die by the mercy of the hawaiian fleet, no?

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@trulpen yeah, it wouldn’t be that good of a trade for Japan. The only reason he might be tempted to do it is if you stack Java with a couple ground units plus the ANZAC planes.

Still, I would be more comfortable with American planes sitting in Queensland to provide cover.

[trulpen]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

Surfer, those issues would have been avoided if 2 American fighters had flown to Queensland on US1. I don’t know why they stayed behind in Hawaii unless you want to threaten moving into the Japan Sea.

Why would that help? There are 3 aussie figs in the vicinity.