Allied Strategy

[Driel310]

When the Japanese fleet was wiped, US got heavies as I wrote. US then went for the SBR on Germany + started to shuck to Europe. However it was too late, Germany + Italy moved in for the kill on Moscow.

Also I have to mention that Germany shot down 3 out of 3 heavies on a SBR run (sorry for that John  :-P). Still I don’t believe that would have prevented the fall of Moscow.  :wink:

[Imperious Leader]

So are you buying more naval, more air or more tech compared to Revised?

I am hoping the naval costs allowed some axis ships.

ON axis land did Japan buy factories and where?

[Black_Elk]

Right now I’m spending most of the cash on Air.

I’m starting to think that the new transport and sub rules really favor the Allies more than the Axis. A few rounds of concentrated Air purchases from Britain and the USA, and you can pretty much shut down any hopes at an Axis naval game.

I had heard that there would be a lot more sub purchases on account of the reduced cost and new rules, but absent some sort of economic damage I still don’t see why anyone would buy them. The fact that they can’t be hit from the air unless a destroyer is present, means that they also can’t be used to defend your main fleet from air attacks. Under the old rules they were basically fodder and blocking units. I’m not sure how it’s supposed to work exactly, now that that fodder role has been coopted, but I don’t see a huge benefit. I guess we’ll probably notice more of them in the Pacific, if the US decides to go that route, but from what I’ve seen so far the new rules just make Fighters and Bombers even more effective than they already were. Now you don’t have to get through subs and transports to trade aircraft for ships, so I’m seeing a greater focus on that type of dynamic.

How is it with the rest of you guys?

[Driel310]

@Imperious:

So are you buying more naval, more air or more tech compared to Revised?

I am hoping the naval costs allowed some axis ships.

ON axis land did Japan buy factories and where?

In our games, Germany didn’t bought any. Japan bought some ships besides trannies when the USA went full blown Pacific, but still only DD’s and CA’s, no capital ships.

As Black already wrote, air is a more attractive buy. They are cheaper and more effective on sea and land. USA had 5 bombers already before they became heavies.

Japan bought an IC on J3 (that’s default) to be placed on Manchuria. In the first game with Japan Godzilla at 70, they also built one on India (the two 3 IPC countries).
By the way, Germany also build an IC on France on both games, the best spot there is and also a default buy at G2.  :wink:

[Stockus13]

Was the IC in France vulnerable to invasion? It seems exposed to combined UK/US invasions. It would help with both defending the coast, and naval purchases, but is it worth it?

[Ó Ruanaidh]

I think that buying a IC for France is a great idea, it can be fairly easily defended due to proximity to Germany and Italy, and it has numerous advantages. One, you can buy planes to bomb Britain, buy subs or destroyers to prevent a the British from sailing about whereever they feel like and instead concentrate on home waters and finally they can build ships in the Mediterranean, which besides being a safe place to build a fleet, especially if Italy does the same, but you can also swiftly ship new units from Europe to Africa. I have been toying with the idea of perhaps standing on the defensive against Russia by building a bunch of infantry and having the artillery and armour in the rear, so when the Russians bleed themslves against the infantry I can counterattack with the heavy hitting units and break their armies. I haven’t tried it yet so I can’t say if it will work. The allied strategy I believe, seems to be the same as in history, clear the Axis of Africa, attempt to distract Germany from exerting all it’s formidable power against Russia, and struggle to restrain the Japanese from running wild in the east. But there are probably many strategies that work. KGF is incredibly boring and it won’t work against experienced German players, Italy and Germany can prevent landings indefinitely with some destroyers and subs, supported by land based planes, while they go after Russia’s throat. Once Russia is down then the Germans can start building bigger fleets than the British, and with the U.S. distrated by Japan, them to. So I believe a KGF is courting disaster if you are facing a decent German player.

[JohnBarbarossa]

@Stockus13:

Was the IC in France vulnerable to invasion? It seems exposed to combined UK/US invasions. It would help with both defending the coast, and naval purchases, but is it worth it?

In our first game when I played Germany and Italy, the IC in France was never taken by the allies.
On UK 1 they invaded France, but it was retaken by Italy so that Germany could buy the IC on G2. After that it was really well defended and there was never a real problem.
However if the allies place their fleet in the correct position they both threathen France and Germany. Since France nor Germany may never be taken, the defense of it costs a lot of Infantry which of course give the Russians some breathing space in the east.
But since Germany cashes out very high mid game, without it it will only be able to place 10 units. And now with the IC they bought 14-16 units a turn.

[Flying Tiger]

IMO the real problem right now is Japan is too strong. They are so strong that it is futile to face them. This is the reason for KGF stratagies right now. In AAR I could fight Japan as USA and have a small force secure Africa. In this game if I try to go after Japan I have to put 100% of my builds in WUSA, I CANNOT afford to send anything to Africa. EVEN THEN I am still too weak to stop Japan. Japan becomes too powerful. The problem is that they start the game with mega fire power and they have been given the ability to ramp up ipc production EQUAL to USA.

Another problem is that the NOs for the USA are essential to get them to the production level that is more realistic so if you don’t play with NOs you are making USA weaker than they should be.

They never should have made Axis have the advantage like this. It’s not even close right now.

[Funcioneta]

I don’t think KGF is the solution. Axis will have economic advantage soon if Japan takes Moscow path or even if you try Alaska path. The solution is making China a viable power and quit that buggy special rules that cripple the Middle Kingdom.

[crimhead]

KIF!

[Ó Ruanaidh]

Seconded! Take them Italians out quick and get at “the soft underbelly of Europe,” as Winston Churchill so grandeliquently put it. Soon as Italy goes down Germany will have to worry about both the full production of the Soviet Union and the U.K., and seeing as how the U.K. will be practically invunerable by then, Germany will fold sooner or later. Then it’s all against Japan, who even if they are tweaked to be to powerful and have to much money, still cannot hope to fight a three on one against the rest of the World.

[crimhead]

If the Allies play KIF/KGF (which I think they should), I think Jpan should try to cripple the  Allied economies rather than bulldozing towards Moscow.  This means rushing full force to India, Africa, and the Mediterranean while Taking Australia, Hawaii, etc cheaply and slowly (but right away).

If Japan does this, U.K will not be in full production.  All the more reason the Allies should be in Italy so as to meet Japan in Africa.

I’m not sure about China.  Letting the Chinese into Manchuria means five National Objective IPCs fo England, and Hong Kong makes six.  But it’s such a drain on Japan to fight China.  They could be getting into India and Africa sooner instead, or even pestering Panama, Alaska and Western US.

[Ó Ruanaidh]

I’m not so sure about a KGF, though that would naturally follow a KIF strategy, I mean, once Italy is out, the Allies have a secure footing in Europe so why not destroy the Reich to as long as you’re there? Obviously it will all hinge on how fast Japan can give assistance two it’s beleagured allies in the west. Since Germany and Italy can’t stand to long against the full might of Britain, America and Russia Japan will have to do something to soften the blow. If they get lucky, Germany will knock Russia out, and then the axis can face the allies at sea and in Africa until they land on British shores, or maybe American shores.

[bugoo]

I’m wondering if a ‘containment’ approach is best.  Have UK/US focus on killing the Italian fleet and securing Africa which pretty much takes Italy out of the game, while engaging Japan in the sea to reduce the amount they can spend on land units, and using SBRs to further slow down the European front.

Think UK1 2 carriers and an IC either south Africa or Australia.  Land your 3 UK fighters and one US fighter upon them.  At the same time the US can send 2 fighters and a bomber to Australia to draw out Japan, while preparing to drop units into Africa with UK cover.  Using a combination of carriers, bombers, subs and destroyers the US/UK should be able to force Japan to spend alot of effort in the southern Pacific.

[Bierwagen]

I played the US last night and had some interesting success with dropping 2 planes into Australia on US1 (e.g., Hawaiian Island & sz44). Japan’s attempt at Australia on J2 was denied, and so I followed up with 2 more fighters to Australia on US2 while the previous ones left for India.

These 4 fighters managed to harrass Japanese shipping quite effectively while the US was building a fleet (n.b., which is an incredibly slow process trying to compete with the Japanese air force).

I like the bomber idea as well.  Unfortunately, I had sent mine to SBR Germany in a knee-jerk KGF reaction.  That toy would’ve added some extra punch. I’ll continue to experiment with this one and see how it pans out.

Sadly, the axis surrendered before US & Japan fleets could engage so I never saw the outcome of it – but it looked promising.

[Je_Gab_Fan]

Screwing up Italy is soooo easy…

build yourself a third bomber with the americans and send it towards Europe. With the 2 bombers you now have on England, screw up the Italian economy, you will deal 6-12 dmg to they factory evey turn…

guess what, they wont be able to build new units anymore.
Get 2-3 transports full o GI’s and youre set for a showdown with the Fuhrer.

well if you don’t attack Italy you can still cripple it for 12 bucks!!

here are my 2 cents.

[Black_Elk]

I don’t think the KIF strategy is what everyone makes it out to be. Maybe you guys are playing against opponents who like to concede early or something.  :-D

For the endgame, you can’t just trade Moscow for Rome, in the same way that you can trade Moscow for Berlin. Plus Italy does not have a very large purse to capture, so it could be that you waste all your money and time trying to Kill Italy, and succeed, only to find the Japs in Moscow. Which turns the whole thing on its head again 2v2.

I guess if you’re the kind of player who always calls the game when a capital falls, the KIF thing would work. But the real reason why KGF was more attractive than KJF in revised, was because of the endgame dynamic. For the Allies, Germans in Moscow/USA in Tokyo was a deadlier proposition than Japs in Moscow/USA in Berlin, so they’d go KGF to ensure the endgame advantage. I think the Italy thing is going to have to be evaluated the same way (eg. can you afford to send everything into the Med, and still secure Moscow from the remaining Axis players? Is it worth it?.)

Just food for thought :)

[Je_Gab_Fan]

It’s not about killing Italy THAT much as rendering it useless. Spending all your IPC to repair your factory screws up any of your plans…

that way you can protect africa, prevent Italy from defending Western Europe effectively or replenishing it’s fleet, crippling them for good using 12 us IPCs. Maybe once in a while you will need the use of the 3rd bomber ( UK’s finest) but steadily you can stop them Italians from pissing you off.

This strategy doesnt stop you from doing other stuff… its just an economical countermeasure to make sure germans spend a lot to defend western europe.

[Alair]

I don’t understand what makes Japan so powerful, I haven’t seen it yet in the games I’ve played.

I think the best strategy for the allies is defend Karelia at all costs.  If Karelia falls then Moscow falls soon afterwards, it’s a huge bonus to Germany.

Japan on the other hand, they didn’t do squat in the game I played but maybe it was due to a weak player…. when they did pearl harbour they devoted some land units and fighters to trying to take the island, then had to retreat in the naval battle.  Then USA got long range aircraft and wiped out most of the Japanese navy (they had unescortered transports that would have been out of range).

I’m playing this coming weekend, so we’ll see.

[Gallo Rojo]

@Alair:

Japan on the other hand, they didn’t do squat in the game I played but maybe it was due to a weak player…. when they did pearl harbour they devoted some land units and fighters to trying to take the island, then had to retreat in the naval battle.  Then USA got long range aircraft and wiped out most of the Japanese navy (they had unescortered transports that would have been out of range).

you were definitively playing a very poor Japan player.
the IJN can sunk US battleship at Hawaii, and US destroyer and tranny in front of US West Coast, and retreat to a safe place in J1

I played an average-to-poor Japanese player and he was collecting 60 ipc by J4 … and then he was spending those IPC in buying Battleships instead of IC to go after Moscow (go figure!). v