@Panther Thanks for the speedy answer… feels like a strategy that might make me unpopular but if it’s legitimate then I suppose it’s fair game.
MY review
-
@Imperious:
I render this game heavily slanted toward Axis in a way that is unimaginable. I am truly sorry but its true.
for starters:
IN 1941 Germany can create quite easily a tank drive straight toward Moscow. The Soviet factories are huge problematic points that prove a weakness in the Soviet position and make it much harder to “give up land for time” because frankly nothing can stop German tanks from taking Karelia factory, while the Soviets by even trying to defend Moscow or the factories face an unmitigated task of stopping the Panzers from multiple defensive points.
So the Soviets are divided by protection of her factories, which weakens the overall structure of her defense allowing either the Italian and or German to choose which weak point to pick off next.
Italy is like a ‘can opener’ or an elite commando team that can follow the German player in with her fighters ( she can build one fighter a turn) and also attack and prep by landing troops in the black sea or following the German victors by placing her fighters in recently captured territories…something that Germany didn’t have before.
Further their is a game breaking uber “can opener” feature where Japan brings in 4 fighters easily from FIC after Germany takes Caucasus.
BY turn 2 Karelia falls, this weakens Caucasus because the Soviets need to now defend Moscow… that’s where the “can opener” Italy starts working by softening up Caucasus, then Germany takes…then japan brings in fighters.
Soviets losing 2 factories will soon lose Moscow.
I also played the Soviets in 1942…
I barely beat back the German Panzers that took Caucasus and Karelia. He had 4 tanks vs my 2 tanks and 2 Inf. I should have lost. UK had to bail me out by hitting 6 tanks in the Baltic states. This was a placement error on my opponents part. If he used his strategy with more precision the result would have been different. The Soviets basically cleared out all the German land units by exchanges. IN that game Italy didn’t play the “can opener” and they basically didn’t coordinate well with Germans.
The Soviet player needs to be have some air units: 1 bomber in 41 and 1 fighter in 42
Also, the Soviets should be able to move her factories so she does not have to protect them if she cant. Germany used this point to prove that she cant.
Placement rules need to change for home territories like Moscow.
Germany can elect to follow my strategy for 2 bombers and then use 3 bombers against Moscow and make it impossible. Thank god nobody tried that.
The Soviets need some kind of reserve force that they secretly place and consists of offensive units.
ok, so the Soviet Union is still a lame duck … for what you wrote here it seems even worst than on Revised…
dam! I haven’t got my game (ordered by mail) yet and I already want my money back! :cry: -
I would like to see a few games with no tech but with NO’s. And see how that turns out it if the allies go all out KGF. Tech is better than in the old games, but still it is very hard to judge playbalance if tech can swing the balance either way.
I really enjoyed playing AA50 last night – we hammered on it for 9+ hours. Some of the best fun I’ve had in a long time. Not all of are old timers so buys and planning took longer than average.
The thing that jumped out at me was the tech. With all the huge sums of money flowing around the board, it is just too easy to drop money on tech. Especially when it is more of an investment than a gamble.
Japanese long range aircraft on T2 hammered the US fleet – over an over again. They start off with so many aircraft it just seemed that they were everywhere – just when you didn’t want them to be. Japan was a MONSTER.
US got improved shipyards, but Japan got it the next turn as well. So, as much as I love the tech I think we’re going to have to play some games without tech to get a real feel for the game.
Thanks for the reviews, they’ve been very helpful in patching together some strategies and tactics. It’s just all so new it’s hard to figure out where to start.
-
IL, it seems that the big problem in your games was that Germany took over Russia too easily and too quickly by buying only tanks in the first 3 (?) turns. Is that right?
If so, I wonder how you defended France + Berlin itself from invading British fleet and starting from turn 2 invading USA fleet… The Italians can clean up a bit, I know, but they can’t clean 4 loads of UK trannies + 2 loads of USA trannies from France…
well not just tanks but close… say you got 37…you build 6 tanks, 1 art, 1 Inf or 2 INf
you have 39, then 6 tanks 3 men, you got 34 then 6 tanks 1 art…you get the general idea here.
The infantry get shucked over by the transport for fodder for Panzer rollers.
The Germans attacked the DD in SZ #6 w/sub and the CA and DD off of Gibraltar with their various fleets w/other sub plus west medd destroyer in 42 or planes. They don’t bother with the other ships. The Italian fleet follows the Germans and protects whats left of German fleet and this forces UK to not invade france because the German Baltic fleet and German planes followed by the Italian fleet in SZ12 makes for too much pressure for invasion, so UK centralizes her fleet and makes a go on turn 2. IN one game they did invade France on turn 1 because Italy kept the fleet inside.
But in all games invasions of 4 units was revoked by Italy and made it hard unless UK had more transports which they did build. But remember the game lasted like 3-4 turns so the Soviet factory crush was deciding the game…
uk decided to regain some lost Soviet territories and took out the Baltic fleet and did this and returned both Baltic states and Karelia which were retaken by Germany.
How can Italy (1941) land fighters on newly captured territories when Russia moves first?
Germany plays after the Soviets. Germany takes a Soviet territory and Italy shadows with fighters and other stuff landed by transports in Black sea. The Soviets have to fight 2 nations.
-
So, the OOB gameplay of this AA game is imbalanced: what’s new with that? :-D
Remember 2nd Ed or AAR !
Whine & curse about it´- then get over it , and suggest your solutions! -
@Imperious:
If so, I wonder how you defended France + Berlin itself from invading British fleet and starting from turn 2 invading USA fleet… The Italians can clean up a bit, I know, but they can’t clean 4 loads of UK trannies + 2 loads of USA trannies from France…But in all games invasions of 4 units was revoked by Italy and made it hard unless UK had more transports which they did build. But remember the game lasted like 3-4 turns so the Soviet factory crush was deciding the game…
4 units in France? What the hell did UK do? They should at least have 3 transports, maybe even 4 on their turn 2 invasion.
Germany plays after the Soviets. Germany takes a Soviet territory and Italy shadows with fighters and other stuff landed by transports in Black sea. The Soviets have to fight 2 nations.
In 41 Germany plays BEFORE the Soviets.
-
The Soviets:
Moscow needs to be raised back to 8 IPC and make Stanjov and Yakut worthless (0 IPC),
Allow the Soviet player to move her factories 1 factory per turn to any other territory.
Give the Soviets 2 tanks and 2 infantry to represent Soviet Siberian reserves which are in some territory starting on turn 2 and can either ‘appear’ and attack, or the German player attacks and they have to face them. Their movement is written down.
Lastly, the Soviets need 2 air units: in 41 they need a bomber, in 42 they need a fighter.
-
Germany plays after the Soviets. Germany takes a Soviet territory and Italy shadows with fighters and other stuff landed by transports in Black sea. The Soviets have to fight 2 nations.
In 41 Germany plays BEFORE the Soviets.
yes correct… thinking 42. IN 41 Germany gets the jump and the Soviets with like 1 tank and 1 fighter and tons of infantry cant retake much so what they don’t retake the Italians land the plane. Italy builds 1 transport and 1 inf and on I2 shucks 4 units in Ukraine or Caucasus. The rest stays in Italy and protects it and retakes france ( 2 tanks, 1art, 2 infantry). They pull infantry from Libya and either shadow Germans or attack Soviets with 2 cruiser SB and fighter plus landing force of 2-4 land units.
-
Very limited experience here, but…
I am looking at the game board ('41) and wondering why Russia only has 1 tank and 2 artillery, but has a worthless little submarine still???
I like the idea of restoring Moscow to 8 IPC, no reason it should be significantly less than everyone else’s. I think the eastern blocks shoulda been grided out, not spun like a wheel like they are.
Italy seems really menacing if they take out Africa. That’s +11 IPC a round for Italy, not insignificant! Outside of that, yea, I don’t see why they shouldn’t focus on keeping the Allies out of Europe while Germany pounds on the underpowered nation of Russia.
Remember, Russia had a massive army in World War II. Between Russia and England, Germany and Italy should be stalemated, it was the addition of American forces that turned the battle. In Classic and AAR this is the case. UK/USSR can hold their own against Germany without American support and they can win with American support.
Just from what I see, I’d say Russia should get +2 Fighters, -1 Industrial complex in Karelia and merge a couple of the Territories with Moscow eliminating their IPC values (hence raising Moscow to 8 IPC value). This won’t change much in the way of Russia’s income, but it would at least give Russia something other than artillery and tanks to trade with.
If not two fighters, one at least. They DID have an air force!
-
Well, for starters the Black Sea should be closed for sea transport like in AAE. This will stop the ridiculous Italian invansions in the Ukraine and Caucasus.
-
yes right. They have no business landing every turn like roaches on rafts. They perform more like a German surrogate commando force with 3 shore shots a turn (4,3,3) that alone can make it worth landing every turn.
-
Maybe Russia needs to build a factory east of Caucus?
Change NOs to “If no russian units in original Japanese territories(1941 Manchuria) collect 5 ipcs”
and also change NO of Japan to “If no Japanese units in Russian territory collect 5 ipcs” and get rid of the Kiangsu,Manchuria,Thailand NO for Japan. -
yes i like that. But for the Soviets…just allow them to move 1 factory each turn and once per game. The problem is Germany takes whatever they live because the Soviets are now defending 3 Moscows. Germany takes the central spots with tanks able to go north or south, then the Soviets cant defend Karelia, then Caucasus falls, then Moscow. The germans cant have these factories because it accelerates the Soviet demise and makes it impossible to remove them.
-
@Imperious:
How can Italy (1941) land fighters on newly captured territories when Russia moves first?
Germany plays after the Soviets. Germany takes a Soviet territory and Italy shadows with fighters and other stuff landed by transports in Black sea. The Soviets have to fight 2 nations.
No, in 1941 they are not. And the first part of your review seem to address the 1941 scenario.
-
I really don’t agree in this talk that Russia is so weak in this game, they have more IPCs than ever before. The problem is that Germany gets so strong IPC-wise. Either you counter this with a very aggressive KGF strategy (see my post above for an example), or you try playing without national objectives. Typically Germany gets 15 IPCs and Italy 10 IPCs from NOs and Soviet union only gets 5, whereas UK gets zip -> so playing without NOs would really help balance the game up towards the Allied side. I would like to see a game played without NOs for the '41 scenario, I will post a game report when I’ve tried it myself!
-
I haven’t played yet but have looked at the board ('41).
I wouldn’t be so quick to change things around yet. Allied strategy ALWAYS trails the Axis. ALWAYS. It was like this for 2nd Ed and for Revised. I specifically remember in Revised in the early games people claiming Germany was too tough and now the Axis need 8-9 bid just to be competitive.
I think if anything this shows that KGF is back in play and the US should do its best to only spend minimally in the Pac and Ignore Japan. I haven’t studied the seazone moves that close yet, but it take Japan like 6 turns just to get from Asia to Mos (up from 3-4 in Revised), But I failry certain the US can land in Afr 1 turn (from Eus, 2 if you go from Ecan) and can set up a similar (3x3 or 4x4) shuck as in Revised for the Europe landings depending on UK moves. And from ecan that is still 2 moves which is much shorter than Japan to Mos.
Russia can pretty much retreat everything East and still hold in Kaz/Novo.
But it does look like they should pretty much abandon Kar or at the very lest try to deadzone. You can pull your AA adn then use Allied bombers to reduced the IPC so at least Ger has to pay some ipc or they still only get to place in Ger.
If after several months the Axis are still winning with ease then just start with eliminating the NO’s and go from there.
Edit:
Lynxes snuck in a post. But I basically agree with him.
-
I dunno, I’ve felt that the axis are too strong in AAR at times and that maybe Russia needed a boost there too.
I don’t know why Larry has it in for the Russians. Maybe he had one too many nuclear attack preparedness drills as a child or something.
Russia always had a strong military, the problem wasn’t lack of equipment, it was lack of experience, lack of motivation and last year’s technology. So why is it they almost never get equipment and this is the first time they’ve been boosted in income? (not like you have a prayer of collecting that income twice mind you.)
We don’t really need to screw around with NOs and bonus units etc. All we need to do is rule out any Russian-Japanese attacks until a capitol falls. That one fix alone would give Russia a significant boost in defensive power. (And it would still take 5 rounds for Russia to walk some of those infantry up to Germany, so it isn’t like a magic wand that Russia gets a mass of troops.)
-
I am not playing with NO’s I am just playing the standard rules…no tech no NO’s
-
@Craig:
@Cmdr:
I don’t know why Larry has it in for the Russians.
Russia always had a strong military, the problem wasn’t lack of equipment, it was lack of experience, lack of motivation and last year’s technology. So why is it they almost never get equipment and this is the first time they’ve been boosted in income? (not like you have a prayer of collecting that income twice mind you.)
The problem is that there is no way in which to represent these issues in a game of this level other than to give them less equipment.
Unlike other games in which you have different quality of units for the different powers, this game has generic units. As such the only recourse is to reduce the set up to get the play out that one wants.
Craig
That, plus the fact that a strong Russia in A&A would = Axis NEVER wins. I agree with Jen that, in reality, Russia’s army was by far the largest fielded in WWII. But as IL said once (I believe it was IL), this is a game, not a simulation. Who wants to play a game that one side always wins? And that’s what you would have if you gave Russia an historically accurate army size.
I don’t have the game yet, but it does sound like this one accomplishes what you would hope it would – i.e., the problems and challenges of the game are different than previous editions. This is no mere re-print of Revised.
-
How about nerfing America instead of Russia for once? :P
Maybe USA should be forbidden to make any attacks or reinforce non-US held territories for two turns and during that time only collect 50% of their normal income.
Then we could rebuff Russia to a more realistic level. :)
-
How about nerfing America instead of Russia for once?
Slowing down America is bad for gameplay. It makes the pacing drag really hard.
They are so slow on the uptake, and if you knocked them out of the fight for the first two rounds they would be even more boring to play than they already are.We experimented with an idea like that using a couple of different house mods and design strategies at TripleA. Wandering Heads Big World 1942 was probably the most popular, but I think it really proves that a weak America makes for a rather drull, and highly Euro-centric gameplay dynamic. If anything we should be giving the USA more money, and more starting units. Maybe then they’d actually try to fight a two front War, instead of just throwing everything in one direction, because they’re so strapped for cash. I actually would have been happier in AA50 if China was just under full USA control like it was in Revised. I think Wandering Head made the same mistake when he changed BigWorld 1942 from the original set up, to the one that included China as a playable faction. It just makes the US less relevant, and takes another KJF option off the table.
Unfortunately, an accurate historical simulation can be just as mind-numbingly boring and irritating, as a wildly inaccurate one, so a compromise will probably always be necessary. I would like to see more effort designing factions that can fight a forward game though, instead of always designing them to defend/collapse. I would say that the current model is predicated on the consistant collapse of China/Russia, where the only real factor is time.
All we need to do is rule out any Russian-Japanese attacks until a capitol falls.
For a long time I used to suggest a similar house rule in Revised, where No Jap troops could attack into a starting Red Territory, and no Soviets could attack into a starting Yellow Territory, until India and Sinkiang where under Jap control. Combined with the house rule of No Western ground units in Red Territories, it had a certain charm. Much of the basic JTDTM remained in place though, it was just delayed by 3-4 rounds. I don’t think we can fix the Russo-Japanese dynamic with NAP rules alone. What we need are some realistic targets for Japan, and a plan for Axis victory that doesn’t involve Moscow. Right now I don’t really see any
I think my image links went down when the site was switched over, but I think you can still read the discussion.
Triplelk’s House Rule for Revised
http://www.tripleadev.org/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=8174&page=1#8174Also, you can combine the house rule posted above with the Colonial Garrison NA and No Axis bid, for a different type of game than the standard 8-9 ipc Axis pre-placement bid.
Suggested Topics
