How do you win with Axis? SERIOUSLY NEED HELP

[rulebook_reviewer]

Well that’s the real question in the topic above but it’s solely based around the question of how do you stop America? US can collect their NOs right away and enter the war if Japan DOWs on Anzac or FEC. If Japan doesn’t do that then the FEC battleship survives and can maneuver and then the FEC can become a real money grabber to make itself a strong presence in the Pacific for a few turns at least really confining Japan to building more navy/replacing lost navy units from inevitable battles instead of money grabbing for themselves and beating the pulp out of China.

So how do you win as the Axis in a severely tilted Allies game? No one is going to even threaten the US NOs besides the Phillipines so they can build awfully quick, go right for Gibraltar, then Italy whereas Germany would have to divert from Russia to protect its southern border, then Russia can mobilize, and then UK can start building a navy meaning everything then starts to beeline towards Berlin.

So what is the formula? I mean the Arsenal of Democracy really dissuades me from even wanting to try to play as the Axis. My belief is you can win as the Axis if you’re playing someone who is new to the game.

Please give me some juicy details and make me believe that this is not a one sided game: details involved in purchases, strategic locations, where to place ICs if they are to be purchased and placed.

Is the game broken? Does it need a bid?

[DoManMacgee]

Axis are considered to have a massive advantage over the Allies by experienced players. The imbalance is so great in the Axis’ favor that the community has spent the better part of the last decade crafting alternate rulesets, setups, and strategies in an effort to combat this, which has only been partially successful.

I’ll let others comment on the specifics (and there are several stickied threads discussing those specifics), but in-general:

• Germany - Kill France turn 1, but move most of your units towards the border with the USSR. Build Tanks, Mechs, and Air Units. Try concentrating your units in one or two main groups rather than spreading them thinly. From turn 2 on advance your main army one-tile-at-a-time through Russia. Generally speaking, follow one of these paths:

  Path A: “North”: Eastern Poland -> Belarus -> Smolensk -> Russia
  Path B: “South”: Eastern Poland -> Western Ukraine -> Bryansk -> Russia

  This plan, if uninterrupted, will win you the game by turn 4/5, long before USA’s economy can make any serious impact on the game.

  The main force should not concern itself with territories like Novogrod (Stalingrad), Eastern Ukraine (factory location) and Volvograd (Stalingrad). Send minor detachments to scoop up those locations as you make a beeline for Moscow. You will be assisted in your mission by the Italians (see below), who will take territories before your main army, allowing you to Non-Combat-Move your planes along with your army.

• Italy - Largely ignore the Mediterranean Theatre. Instead, focus on building Mech and Tank units, which will make a beeline towards Moscow on the same path I described above for Germany. What Italy is going to want to do is kill the lone Infantry units standing in the territories blocking your path. If this is not possible (because the Soviets put their entire army in said “next territory”), the Italians can simply hold their position for the round, and the Germans can destroy the main Soviet army with their far superior numbers/strength. Aside from this, Italy’s job is to make the best use of its starting navy to defend itself against Allied attacks.

• Japan - Kill Calcutta and occupy the Philippines/Dutch Islands (modern day Indonesia) as quickly as possible, largely ignoring the Chinese Theatre. By accomplishing this, you eliminate the only true threat you face on land in your region, the UK Pacific Economy (as the Chinese units can’t leave China and can only build Infantry and Artillery). Doing this while also scooping up the islands I mentioned above greatly boosts Japan’s economy to such a drastic extent that they will be nearly on-par with the Americans, allowing them to build a steady stream of Aircraft Carriers to house the incredibly large number of planes they begin the game with.

  Once Japan is making ~as much money as the USA, they can move out their navy in the direction of ANZAC (or Cairo, if the European Axis haven’t managed to take that territory). More often than not Japan will win the game on the Pacific board by occupying Calcutta, Sidney, and Honolulu, provided that Germany doesn’t win first by knocking out the Soviets.

[Xlome_00]

@DoManMacgee If Japan kills Calcutta and/or the Phillipines and Money islands as soon as possible than that is a J1 Attack, which will bring America into the war on turn one thereby your first point about Germany is likely to fail because America is going to use all that money to go full KGF.

…in that event, I would say the game is very balanced, if not slightly skewed to the Allies because Italy will not be able to Can-open for Germany if it is left to fend for itself against America coming in with a loaded navy AND after a Taranto/Tobruk raid by the UK…

Germany will have to divert (at a minimum) 1/3 of its IPCs to creating an Atlantic wall, which means Russia and the allies have the odds on Germany simply as a basis of time and space. Germany CANNOT take Moscow if America is in the war on its first turn and decides to spend the bulk of its IPCs on securing Africa, taking out Italy, and then Europe…

[DoManMacgee]

@Xlome_00 If America goes 100% KGF Japan wins on the Pacific board in 5-6 rounds. I can’t go into specifics because I don’t play G40 competitively but this is the typical experience from everything I’ve seen regarding the game.

[Xlome_00]

@DoManMacgee All America has to do is spend 25% or less to divert such an attack from Honolulu or Sydney while Japan tries to catch up economically to the US while taking out Calcutta, China, Money Islands, etc.

Yes, America going 100% KGF leaves that option open for Japan but that’s not even a realistic strategy. America would likely spend at least some money in the Pacific. As well, America can spend very heavily in the Atlantic for a few turns and shuttle transports back and forth to the Eastern US, spending less than half its money on re-stocking those transports to go back to Germany/Africa/Italy.

Once America has established complete domination over the Atlantic (thereby allowing the UK to build a navy once again) it can spend the majority of its money on the Pacific, nullifying a Pacific victory by Japan.

[DoManMacgee]

@Xlome_00 That’s blatantly untrue in high-level play. There’s a reason Allies need a ~30 bid to compete on this map OOB. Maybe in BM what you’re saying has more weight to it but this thread isn’t about BM.

EDIT: I only brought up USA going 100% KGF because you said the following:

@Xlome_00 said in How do you win with Axis? SERIOUSLY NEED HELP:

@DoManMacgee If Japan kills Calcutta and/or the Phillipines and Money islands as soon as possible than that is a J1 Attack, which will bring America into the war on turn one thereby your first point about Germany is likely to fail because America is going to use all that money to go full KGF.

I’m not going to challenge you to a game or anything to prove my point because, again, I don’t play G40 competitively. So you’d probably win whatever game we played easily even without a bid. But I think the existence of BM and high bids for Allies in virtually all games of G40 is more than enough evidence that Axis have the blatant advantage in this game.

[rulebook_reviewer]

For the most part its nearly 70 IPCs going to Gibraltar every turn, how can Italy afford to place itself on the Eastern Front?

Italy is the softest underbelly ever. If you do the Taranto/Tobruk simultaneously you completely neuter them. Or if Tobruk doesn’t go through because the UK cruiser by Gibraltar was taken out then then Italy is still likened to nothing but a piece oof gum on your show and in this scenario a portion of the UK navy was left untouched around the mainland.

If Italy doesn’t turtle immediately then the southern flank to Germany’s world domination is completely undefended. The smartest Russian player would literally build a wall of infantry and the 1-2 IPCs leftover would be to upgrade an infantry to an artillery. Germany can match Russia by building a wall of cheap units but then it doesn’t have mobility for the absolute shit storm of America that’s landing 70 IPCs of guys every turn.

So still it just seems like a way overpowered Allies advantage. America doe snot declare IRL until Pearl Harbor occurs. So FEC and ANZAC being attacked should not trigger them entering the war, this is the buff that the Axis should get imo.

If Japan does not take care of the BB near Malaya then FEC becomes a real pain in the ass to where Japan would have invest more in the Pacific than on the Asian continent which can become quickly out of hand with the addition of 3-4 Chinese units a turn.

In reality I think any axis buff would have to involve Italy income being upgraded to at least 12-15IPC/turn to allow for the production 4-5 infantry/turn to protect Europe’s soft underbelly and work on the majority of the Atlantic wall in order for Germany to focus completely on Russia OR the other detail becomes in which US always enters the war at the end of its third turn and starts collecting its NOs (or of course unless attacked).

[General 6 Stars]

I’m agreeing with DoMan here. I also don’t play g40 but from what I’ve read and seen the allies getting a bid of 25-50. Depends on players. I know a guy from here that would give a new player a bid of 100. I’m not here to play or start a major discussion. Somebody is not playing the axis right.
A lot of the original members just don’t reply no more.
Taamvan May chime in. He’s says played ‘many games and he came up with the BM I believe.

[Private-Panic]

This correct. The Axis have the advantage. When I started playing in the League on this forum, players required 20+ income to spend on additional starting set up units.

[DoManMacgee]

@rulebook_reviewer said in How do you win with Axis? SERIOUSLY NEED HELP:

For the most part its nearly 70 IPCs going to Gibraltar every turn, how can Italy afford to place itself on the Eastern Front?

Italy is the softest underbelly ever. If you do the Taranto/Tobruk simultaneously you completely neuter them. Or if Tobruk doesn’t go through because the UK cruiser by Gibraltar was taken out then then Italy is still likened to nothing but a piece oof gum on your show and in this scenario a portion of the UK navy was left untouched around the mainland.

If Italy doesn’t turtle immediately then the southern flank to Germany’s world domination is completely undefended. The smartest Russian player would literally build a wall of infantry and the 1-2 IPCs leftover would be to upgrade an infantry to an artillery. Germany can match Russia by building a wall of cheap units but then it doesn’t have mobility for the absolute shit storm of America that’s landing 70 IPCs of guys every turn.

Italy’s navy gets wiped out and then what? Nothing. Before USA can even get to Europe they have to invest heavily in a Surface Fleet so the German Air stack doesn’t just wipe them out immediately by abusing the extra movement range that air bases provide. That takes at least 2-3 turns of heavy building, meaning the USA/UK navy isn’t amassing off of Africa until at least round 4-5. By that point, it’s already too late. The last Germans/Italians that are Moscow bound left on turn 3-4, and everything past that point is mass INF/BOMB buys to hold the fort/poke at the US/UK Fleet.

You seem to be underestimating exactly how powerful Germany’s starting assets in particular are, and overestimating the benefits that USA’s NOs grant them. It’s a huge advantage, but it takes time to materialize due to USA’s nonexistent naval presence at the start of the game, and that’s the problem for the Allies.

[simon33]

@rulebook_reviewer https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/31377/axis-victories-what-s-the-magic-trick

It’s already been discussed.