The Polar Express

[Narvik]

Very good, SS, except I dont think any European territory should be impassable. What I said in my former post’s was that the terrain in Finnmark favors the defender. Narrow mountain pass is a bottleneck with natural flank protection, and easy to block. But the attacker dont face any problems if the semi-impassable territory is left empty, then it is just a walk over. It is the possibility for an attacker to bypass the strong defense in Finnmark by moving through Finland, that is the main reason Finnmark was left empty in 1944 and during the Cold war. And this strategy problem is moot if you make Finnmark impassable. In that case you make the game scriptet. You make the same mistake as the other game designers, you dont trust the casual players to make the historical correct decisions, so you make it for them by designing the map and rules in a way that leave no choice. Other than that, your map is excellent, especially for an 129 years old celebrity that come to America in a sub  :-D

About terrain.

Terrain makes no sense unless you combine it with winter and summer seasons.
-Mountain terrain always favor the defender, but dont effect movement during summer. In winter mountain terrain is impassable.
-Marshes are impassable during summer, but get hard surface during winter, since water freeze. That is the reason Finland always get invaded during winters.
-Forest terrain favor the defender and make movement difficult in both summer and winter.

Any kind of terrain should reduce movement. Not because the Tanks in the spearhead drive slower, they dont, but because the supply chain face a lot of problems. A truck with supply use 7 times more fuel when driving in snow, cold, dirt roads in marshes or swamps, forest road, or zic zac up and down mountain passes. So basically it is 7 times more expensive to attack during winter or in terrain. We dont get that feeling playing A&A because the map designer made it the other way, he made huge wastelands into one space, commonly known as the Polar Express, and cut urban areas with highways and railways into a hotchpotch (funny word) of so many spaces it takes years to move through it. It even effect aircrafts. But it should be the other way around. Germany, Italy and France should be one space, Novosibirsk should be 3. Or, if you dont love the idea of one territory France, then add unlimited railway move to the non combat phase. Easy fix

[Narvik]

SS, taken from your “Blitz move” thread in the House Rule forum, someone mentioned a “primitive territory” rule, where Tanks and Mechs can only move 1 space. Not a bad idea, and for sure less complex than terrain and weather rules.

[General 6 Stars]

I just misunderstood what you ment by Finnmark passable and not.
I havent changed my map yet. I will have in game any attacker that comes from Norway through the Passage and moves into Finland all defenders get a +1 on defense. This can be adjusted.
I do have Rapitusta, Mooson and Winter in weather charts. I have to tweak the chart now some what.
So ill have to go with this but probably change somewhat.

T1) Spring  41    Cannot cross over Marshes
T2) Summer 41 Monsoon : No movement for motorized units in Burma area in 4
                                           territories.
                                           Cannot cross over Marshes.                            
T3 ) Winter  41  Norway : Impassable only inf can move.   Finland too ?
                         Russia Red Territories : Motorized units only move 1.
                         All motorized units can travel over marshes.
                         Russia can declare winter 1 time in game. +1 for all Inf on D (NA 2
                         winters can declare 2 times. )

T4) Spring  42
T5) Summer 42
T6) Winter 42

T7) Spring 43
T8) Summer 43
T9) Winter 43

T10) Spring 44
T11) Summer 44
T12) Winter 44

Weather be the same for all years. Japan Tanks and Mechs can only move 1 in China and Burma area do to jungle. This maybe changed. This is there for to keep Japan out of Russia or at least slow them down. Do have a treaty for Russia Japan.

If you look at my game results and such in house rules youll understand more of what the game has in it. Ea country gets 2 NA at start of game.

Or go with this.

T1) Spring/Summer  41   Monsoon : All Motorized units M1 In Burma area 4 Terr.
                                                         Cannot cross over Marshes.
T2) Fall  41    Raspitusta : All Motorized units only M1 in Russian Red Territories.
T3) Winter  41    All motorized units can cross Marshes.
                          No Motorized Movement in or out of Norway.  Finland ?
                          Russians can declare a winter. +1 for all Inf against axis in Red T.

T4) Spring/Summer  42
T5) Fall  42
T6) Winter  42

T7) Spring/Summer  43
T8) Fall  43
T9) Winter  43

T10) Spring/Summer  44
T11) Fall  44
T12) Winter  44

Have to figure out which weather chart works best for game.

The key is if you make the German tanks only move 1 in Raspitusta and winter in same year it may and probably slow down Germany to much. Time frame is always the issues. Spread it out better ? Have to see. Think best to go with the weaker weather chart and go with the 2nd chart so tanks can move 2 in winter but im sure this is not histroically
correct.

This is what I have in game now. But now I added a few things to it.

T1)  Monsoon       No Motorized Movement in 4 Burma Territory Area. No Marsh
                            crossings.
                            FEC can still use the Burma Railroad.                            
T2)  Fair
T3)  Raspitusta     All Motorized units M1 only in RED T. No Marsh crossing.
                             All Motorized units M1 only in Norway territories. Finland ?
T4)  Winter           Russian Inf D+1 if winter is declared 1 time per game. NA 2 times.
                            No motorized Movement in Norway. Finland ?
                            You can cross frozen Marshes now.

T5)  Monsoon       Same for all rest of turns.
T6)  Fair
T7)  Raspitusta
T8)  Winter
T9)  Monsoon
T10) Fair
T11) Raspitusta
T12) Winter

Still the sticky point is for winter are all Motorized units still able to M2 ?
This weather chart does slow down Germany but they still get 2-3 turns of good movement. last thing I want to do is change setups. Most games you will know by turns 6-8 if Axis are going to win. The goal in game is to have a winner by T10 and that is happening now.

I really like this chart now. Before I add more stuff or change seasons Narvik,  I need to play test this first. At least I got some weather in Norway and any attacks going through the passage into Finland gets a +1 on defense for ea piece. Just got to watch if this slows the allies down to much coming from Norway to Leningrad. But hey you need to plan your attacks in good weather !

Sorry for the long post.

Panther if need be no problem if this was moved to House rules.

[General 6 Stars]

In my game if you attack a Strict Neutral nothing happens to all the other neutrals. You win battle you get territory. You lose it goes to the other side. Now if Germany attacks the Island off Sweden in the middle of the 3 sz   I believe the troops on mainland Sweden are still neutral but with Sweden having 2 territories now the ground troops can move in any of those 2 territories to stack up if they want.
Or the ground troops in Sweden become Sweds and can come out of Sweden and attack Germany in Norway or Finland.
But history wise was that even possible for the Sweds to do. Best for Germany to attack all 3 Sweden territories.

[General 6 Stars]

Well after reading the history on Sweden in WW2 and if its mostly true the Germans would of had a hard time just to keep Sweden plus had a huge army build up once war started,. The Germans  invaded Norway also to protect the iron/ore from allies attacking from that direction. So it looks like Ill give Germany that little island once activated and for the passage of German ships through the straits.
If Germany wants to attack Sweden in game so be it.
Also will give Germany a 1 time pass in game where German ground troops can cross Sweden while neutral into Norway.

Sweden also helped the allies but there huge army build up during the war gave them support to go both ways helping Germany and Allies even while neutral during the war.
Crap they got planes from Italy too.

Ha looks like Sweden was the White Spy/Black Spy in WW2 if history was correct that I read.

[Narvik]

@SS:

In my game if you attack a Strict Neutral nothing happens to all the other neutrals.

That is historical correct, and its also the quintessence of being a neutral. Now, if you joined the war to fight on behalf of others, like UK and France did, then you never were a true neutral in the first place. Also, and I cant stress this enough, Italy, Russia and Japan were not true neutrals that had to be attacked before they could join the war, in fact they too were predators just like Germany and should be allowed to attack anyone from Turn 1.

[General 6 Stars]

OK Narvik

Here is a pic of my change to Norway. Made it 3 territories now and added 1 icp value to middle territory, chip covering amount and split Finland into 2 territories and added 1 icp value. Plus I added the Sweden Island between the 3 sz.
Now if history is right I have in game now Germany can make a 1 time combat or non combat through Swedens territory once in game. If Germany wants to transport troops through sz 19 into Finland they must control the Sweden Island to pass through the Straits without being an act of war.
My weather chart has been changed also to affect any kind of Norway Movement in winter season and not. Its in above post at bottom of thread the weather chart Im going to use now in game. Moderized units move 1 in non winter and no movement in winter for Norway.

You can also reach Norway from Iceland and Greenland in 2 sz.

At least now with Oslo always being a VC worth 1 point towards victory conditions in game at least they can defend it without allies just blasting into Norway and then blasting to Leningrad.

As I said before I didnt add sz113 like on your chart and let me know if Sweden is suppose to be 2 territories. But according to your map drawing its not.

Thanks for the input and info.

[Narvik]

Great map, you really got skills. But i think you misunderstand about the island, I dont talk about Gotland, I talk about Ã…land which is a Finnish island that block the approach into Bottenviken, or seazone 19 on your map. Se my map

[General 6 Stars]

I cant find Aland island. Maybe I’m missing something here or need to look at on a computer

[Midnight_Reaper]

@SS:

I cant find Aland island. Maybe I’m missing something here or need to look at on a computer

Aland is that spec of orange off the southwest coast of Finland on your map, closer to Sweden than Finland. The following is the Wikipedia map of Finland, with Aland highlighted in red at the bottom:

-Midnight_Reaper

[General 6 Stars]

Then I remove Sweden island and put a Finland island more north I guess. Still kinda hard to see  Narvik just put a black dot on the island in your pic. I’m still leaving the rest of
Map

[Narvik]

OK, I now post a new pic with the Ã…land islands circled to show why it block the approach into Bottenviken. This little detail may not look important in the scale of A&A, but it did effect the real war. If Stalin had only wanted Viborg then it would not be any problems or any Winter War. Ã…land is a tiny island, but its geo-strategical position is like Malta or Gibraltar, it control the important seaways. How would the Swedish iron ore, the iron that build the German war machine, move from Northern Sweden to Germany if Stalin closed the Ã…land strait with a minefield covered by coastal guns in Ã…land ? By aircraft ? I dont think so.

[General 6 Stars]

OK. Its a Finland controlled island and its located on my map in SZ 19.

[taamvan]

I am glad we can welcome open discussion about whether the VITALLY CRITICAL STRATEGIC areas of NORWEG are inaccurately depicted on the map.    This seemingly minor country has been overlooked as a potential battleground and since it had the 8th largest sea-going force by tonnage, think that we need to give it several destroyer units as well as fishing boats units that can choose to capture COD or HERRING depending on the season, these fish can be exploited for their valuable OIL which is the reason that NORSKLAND has such a large offshore OIL industry and also has several varieties of SMOKED and PICKLED fish (with accompanying liquor resources) that should be represented as an in-game commodity.

ONce our re-evaluation of Scandinavia is complete, we should move to my homeland, the CENTRAL UNITED STATES which is ill-represented in terms of its full variety of strategic options and should be divided into no less than 12 zones depicting the DAKOTA regions, and some of the lesser-known parts of NORTHERN TEJAS AKA Kansas.

[vodot]

@taamvan said in The Polar Express:

I am glad we can welcome open discussion about whether the VITALLY CRITICAL STRATEGIC areas of NORWEG are inaccurately depicted on the map. This seemingly minor country has been overlooked as a potential battleground and since it had the 8th largest sea-going force by tonnage, think that we need to give it several destroyer units as well as fishing boats units that can choose to capture COD or HERRING depending on the season, these fish can be exploited for their valuable OIL which is the reason that NORSKLAND has such a large offshore OIL industry and also has several varieties of SMOKED and PICKLED fish (with accompanying liquor resources) that should be represented as an in-game commodity.

ONce our re-evaluation of Scandinavia is complete, we should move to my homeland, the CENTRAL UNITED STATES which is ill-represented in terms of its full variety of strategic options and should be divided into no less than 12 zones depicting the DAKOTA regions, and some of the lesser-known parts of NORTHERN TEJAS AKA Kansas.

Precisely! :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

If @Narvik gets Atland, then where are my freshwater, bootleg Aircraft Carriers for the glorious Great Lakes of my beautiful home state of Michigan!!?

Inconceivable!

[General 6 Stars]

@vodot said in The Polar Express:

@taamvan said in The Polar Express:

I am glad we can welcome open discussion about whether the VITALLY CRITICAL STRATEGIC areas of NORWEG are inaccurately depicted on the map. This seemingly minor country has been overlooked as a potential battleground and since it had the 8th largest sea-going force by tonnage, think that we need to give it several destroyer units as well as fishing boats units that can choose to capture COD or HERRING depending on the season, these fish can be exploited for their valuable OIL which is the reason that NORSKLAND has such a large offshore OIL industry and also has several varieties of SMOKED and PICKLED fish (with accompanying liquor resources) that should be represented as an in-game commodity.

ONce our re-evaluation of Scandinavia is complete, we should move to my homeland, the CENTRAL UNITED STATES which is ill-represented in terms of its full variety of strategic options and should be divided into no less than 12 zones depicting the DAKOTA regions, and some of the lesser-known parts of NORTHERN TEJAS AKA Kansas.

Precisely! :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

If @Narvik gets Atland, then where are my freshwater, bootleg Aircraft Carriers for the glorious Great Lakes of my beautiful home state of Michigan!!?

Inconceivable!

Yes his Atland is on my map now and those bootleg Aircraft Carriers are on my glorious Great Lake of Michigan off the coast of Kenosha, WI ! :smile:

[taamvan]

Michigan? I believe this area is better known to Europeans by its unofficial title, “Lesser Canada”

All the states North of the “Leinenkugel Line” are best identified as US-occupied areas captured from the Dominions of Canada during the Canuck War of 1913. This line is defined by whether liquor stores carry Leinenkugel beer in 30 packs as opposed to bottles.

[barnee]

@taamvan The Insurgency that destroyed Strohs still depresses me. Thank God for Schmidt and the free fishing lures.

[General Veers]

@vodot Need to make a North American map that can be used for the French & Indian War (or Seven Years’ War), American Revolution and War of 1812 that features Mackinac Island controlling the strait linking Lake Michigan with Lake Huron. For the 1812 scenario Britain will already be set up to take the fort on the first turn.

[vodot]

@General-Veers said in The Polar Express:

@vodot Need to make a North American map that can be used for the French & Indian War (or Seven Years’ War), American Revolution and War of 1812 that features Mackinac Island controlling the strait linking Lake Michigan with Lake Huron. For the 1812 scenario Britain will already be set up to take the fort on the first turn.

haha awesome