Thanks for reply, so it sounds like most of us agree that the rule is written poorly and that there is a logical “AA” way to interpret it, thanks!
Axis & Allies and Zombies is REAL
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I pick up a lot of negative waves in this thread, man. But look, when we play the classic A&A, we are prisoners in the historical correct straight jacket. We dont like to see German battleships in the Pacific ocean, or Japanese Bombers in France, and China even got special rules to make sure they dont do anything they did not do in the real war. Zombies will set us free, crush the limits in our minds, this game start at ground zero and anything can happen. WWII belong in history books, zombies are a game.
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Axis and Allies is a human attempt at making a bloody, horrible conflict a mild strategy game. Zombies are a human attempt at making the final chapter of life a horror story.
I see what you mean Narvik, and I hate what I see. It’s called the darkening of the world.
As the older generation passes away, so will the innocence of boardgaming? What was once an entertaining series of order and decent consistency is soon to become a dismal fantasy centered on a degraded form of mankind.
Oh, the drama.
I know I sound conceited, but it pains when I realize that my favorite board game is going to become a mere pebble in the mass of today’s popular franchises. It won’t stand out.
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When im at gencon, I see game after game where im like–“small unit action, pacific front, with chit art, sweet rules…every tank and wonderweapon offered for fun purposes…and $60…” sweetest idea ever… eh.
So many concepts, themes, sculpts, incredible art…but it is overwhelming choice and since gaming tends to be based on fairly simplistic (Boolean/algebraic math and randomness) logic, games all end up having similar “engines” where they are
1) easily exploited because some choices are better than others (imbalance)
2) not super engaging, because a series of small choices add up to a point advantage, but winning usually comes down to the conduct of a single play at some point where you either grabbed or stopped someone else from grabbing something (I call this “point shaving” and its most eurogames)Chess kind of breaks this mode, because its a call and response type game, act, react, act react…you can have every piece on the board left and still lose. Axis and Allies has enough choice and variety (and takes forever) so it takes a lot longer to see #1 and #2 isn’t as much of a problem because small victories and takeovers matter way less than winning dramatic battles and conserving strength until the critical moment.
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Axis & Allies and Zombies? Perhaps for thee, but never for me. I have no interest in this game, but I also understand it wasn’t made for folks like me, who grew up playing Classic A&A, Squad Leader, Panzer General, etc.
I get the attempt to use the brand to generate more revenue, and if it does, in fact, lead to more “real” A&A games, I’m okay with it. Will A&A&Z turn out to be a “gateway” game, luring more unsuspecting millennials down the path toward the hardcore gaming greatness that is G40? A few, maybe. Even if it is only a few, however, that still represents progress, and I’m all for that.
Will A&A&Z kill the brand? No more than The Phantom Menace killed Star Wars. I’m not concerned. And it could’ve been much worse. A&A and Harry Potter? Pokemon? Zombies might be the lesser evil here.
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@DouchemanMacgee:
Wizard’s been “cashing in” with this franchise since the “2nd editions” release. It still rubs me the wrong way thinking about that fiasco.
They should have created an upgrade kit for 1st edition owners. :xSecond edition of what? G40? There’s nothing in G402E that you can’t just house rule into first edition IIRC.
Only other “2nd Edition” out there is 42SE and it’s an entirely separate game from 42.
So, with G40 2nd ed., you’re fine with WOTC releasing a product while actively working on a 2nd ed. at the same time?
New sculpts take time to create, proof and sign off on.
WOTC would have to have been working on this while getting 1st ed. out the door.
As for house ruling, why do I have to? I just paid $200 for G40.
1942.2 was again released too soon after Spring 1942. Both games existed at the same time in different stages of being finished.
WOTC used people as play testers and had them pay for the privilege. -
So, with G40 2nd ed., you’re fine with WOTC releasing a product while actively working on a 2nd ed. at the same time?
New sculpts take time to create, proof and sign off on.P40 was 2009, E40 was 2010.
G40 2nd Ed. was released in 2012. A two-year gap. The only real differences besides minor cosmetic changes to the map (correct me if I’m wrong) are the use of the Alpha 3 setup/rules as an attempt to balance the horrible mess (balance-wise) that was the 1st edition. The Alpha 3 rules were basically over-glorified house rules crafted by the community over the years with Larry’s blessing, if you recall.So, like I said, G40 2nd Edition is nothing you can’t play by house-ruling 1st edition, which is exactly what I do, since there’s no point in my owning both 1st edition and 2nd edition.
WOTC would have to have been working on this while getting 1st ed. out the door.
That’s incorrect, based on what I explained above (AFIK Wizards had nothing to do with the Alpha 3 rules beyond Larry’s input). I doubt that G40SE took very long to cook up, seeing as most of the components are identical or nearly identical to 1st edition. If anyone has insider info regarding what went on at Wizard’s from 2009-2012 feel free to correct me.
As for house ruling, why do I have to? I just paid $200 for G40.
You don’t. No one’s holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use the Alpha 3 rules (or the balanced mod, for that matter). It’s just for the sake of game balance. If money’s an issue just play TripleA like most people. If you just want the sculpts just buy them for cheap off HBG.
1942.2 was again released too soon after Spring 1942. Both games existed at the same time in different stages of being finished.
WOTC used people as play testers and had them pay for the privilege.I agree with the release dates being too close (it over-saturated the market and is probably a main reason why both versions of 42 aren’t as well-regarded as the rest of the franchise). It also didn’t help that the name “1942 2nd Edition” was completely and totally misleading, as 422E has almost nothing to do with 42, aside from there only being 5 playable countries and there not being NOs.
I don’t see any grand conspiracy about 42 being a “test run” for 42SE, though. 42 was just a lazy copy/paste of revised using AA50’s map design, rules, and units. It probably took WOTC about 3 months to finish soup to nuts, and as a result, it’s probably the worst version of A&A barring 1941. It’s not that the rules or gameplay are bad, the board is just hideously small/cramped and the physical components were atrocious (IIRC it was the start of the whole “no paper money, no battle board” cost-cutting fiasco that’s plagued the franchise in recent years).
42SE, while an unbalanced mess (and still having awful physical components, for the most part), is a true successor to Revised/AA50 in terms of map size/scale, and a good way to ramp new players up to G40.
I know I’m coming off like some sort of drone for Wizards, but I’m not (they pushed out way too many A&A products in too short a span of time between 2009-2014, some of them good, like AA50, G40 and 42SE, and the rest ranging from okay to terrible).
As for Zombies (not responding to robert t, just a general note for the thread):
I understand the visceral hatred for the concept of zombies removing any semblance of historical accuracy or “wargame tradition” from A&A, but what’s stopping us, as a community, from house-ruling out the Zombies and enjoying the rest of the game? The A&A community took G40 from OOB to Balanced Mod and has made bids for practically every game in the series, I doubt that a few zombies are too much to handle.
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The point you are missing is the manufacturing time line.
Having worked in the field, I know it takes time to design, sculpt and process new figures/models and their dies.
Two years would be tight time line to complete this, especially from China.I prefer to have/own rules professionally printed rather than pdfs and/or home printed ones.
The rules, Alpha 3 or WOTC, are not the issue here as they take little time to manufacture.
The fact that the 1st edition ones are a mess is telling though.HBG is not an option for me as shipping costs more than the items bought.
Again, it is telling when you factor the complete time for creating new sculpts from scratch, that WOTC was working on aa 2nd edition when the first hit was being finalized/shipped.
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There’s no point in arguing about the manufacturing and logistics process Wizards used when making G40/G40SE on a thread about “Axis & Allies: Zombies,” so I’ll drop the conversation.
However, I dispute the notion that G40SE, a game only played by the most hardcore elements of the A&A fanbase and only distrusted to hobby shops, was a cash-in.
If anything, 41 was the shameless cash-in of the franchise.
AAZ is also most-likely a cash-in, but pretty much everyone here agrees with you on that I think.
Again, all I’m asking is that we wait to see what the game looks like before we crucify it. The Zombies (and the “Cards,” even) might be easy to house-rule out of the game.
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I don’t think you will be able to remove the “Zombies” from this upcoming game. The slobs that will make this monster will make it the focus in the game, not an afterthought. Its what they are.
D$D players making an Axis and Allies game.
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Agreed, you probably won’t be able to remove the zombies/cards.
However, you might get a nice map which would replace the revised map. You might then be able to create a faster playing A&A game.
This would then replace 1941 as the intro game for new players.The cards might be transferable, but that is a wait and see.
Extra pieces might be used elsewhere if colour and sculpt permit.
Chips and dice, meh, unless the chips are a different colour.
I am looking forward to a press release to see what they have in mind for this game.
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I am looking forward to scattering chainsaw tanks on your hardwood floors while you are wearing socks and getting your coffee in the morning
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At least they haven’t let this line die. Get it, die…
:-D
Crickets…All in all, purists will hate it. It is what it is. But, it could be fun.
As Grandma always said, try what’s on your plate. You might like it.That’s what most folks are scared of. They might actually have to admit that the game is fun and entertaining. Correct me if I’m wrong, games are supposed to be both of those things and more.
My 2 cents.
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Purists may indeed hate it, but they might also buy it for the various bits.
1941 falls into that category I do believe.
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I’m in the “let’s wait for a more detailed announcement before denouncing it” crowd, but I’ve already said that like 5 times in this thread.
We’ll see how it goes. Novemeber’s a ways off yet.
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I think they plan a press release in April with more details about the game.
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This is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen or heard. Disrespectful to the memory of those who fought and mentally lazy game design.
First A&A game I won�t own.
As a long time AA fan, 110% agree.
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The upside is that a younger generation might see this game and become interested in the regular Axis & Allies game as well as WWII history.
Precisely. This is the reason that Larry created A&A in the first place.
This may be controversial, but anything that gets new players interested is a good thing.
Company line…c’mon guys, please give me a break.
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These muppets at WOTC basically don’t know how to make a proper History based wargame using the AA system. What they know is bullcrap and the ability to interject fantasy into reality. The result is AAZ, which is in their wheelhouse and since they are attempting to revive the Avalon Hill brand and keep AA people somewhat in the loop, this is the result. Normally, we would get something like Barbarossa AA or Civil War AA or even an enlarged 1914 game with all sorts of new units and sculpting into national specific sculpts. That is NOT in their wheelhouse. I suspect after this debacle, they may reemploy Larry to make a proper game.
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They lost DnD to Paizo by being inflexible and refusing to serve their market
They lost Magic to “Pay to Win” -ism and trying to re-print an overly simplistic and inflated game system for 30 years without modding it
They lost Gencon to legal squabbling, overexpansionism, and being territorial about an all-industry convention
They took all their national tourneys and made them stand alone outside the national circuit
Fantasy Flight has basically demonstrated that if you design good games and serve your customers then the licenses and the fan base will come
They had so much money and bought every classic property but they fell victim to GE like conglomeration…games are not that suited to a monolithic TSR like management structure and there are endless examples (from TSR) about why you don’t build a game company that way.
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Yea Tragic:The Disbursement was a sucky game.
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