Major IC in Romania

[PainState]

Why not on G1 build a 30IPC Major IC in Romania?

A major IC in Romania offers so many tactical options to Germany. Sure, it delays Germany on their DOW of Russia BUT the ability to build up to 10 units right on the front lines of Russia, build a fleet in the Black sea and maybe threaten Turkey cannot be denied. It offers Germany HUGE flexibility on projecting force.

What do you guys think?

[larrymarx]

My argument against building it on the first turn is that you want to leave open the possibility of Sealion to force UK to build defensively. I like 1DD, 1FTR, 1BMR because these units are all useful no matter what Germany decides to do. The DD clears out the Russian sub from SZ125 and pays for itself even if Germany doesn’t buy any more navy the entire game.

I also don’t think messing with Turkey or the Black Sea are good for Germany. The neutral crush slows the Axis’ momentum too much. For a German naval strategy, I think that only Sealion and Afrikacorps are viable. If you aren’t going to dump a bunch of IPC’s in the water and take London, the only real naval play I see for Germany is to build just enough out of Southern France to tip the scales in the Med and move into Egypt and the Middle East.

What I like the Romania major for is for pumping out inf and art against Russia, either on offense or on defense. It could also help deter an Allied beachhead in Greece.

If you’re going for a rapid advance and taking Moscow as soon as possible, I don’t think the major in Romania would help because you’d rather have those 30 IPC’s in the form of units on the first turn and then you’re going to build fast moving units on subsequent turns where the proximity to the front doesn’t change anything that much. You’ll also have Ukraine and Volgograd earlier. If plans change and you need to dig in, I might consider buying minors for Western Ukraine and Rostov. I’ve never done that before but I think it would be more helpful than having that Romania factory.

In any other Germany strategy besides the fast Russia push, I agree that the Romania major is a good buy. I just wouldn’t do it on turn 1.

[Ichabod]

I think a G2 minor IC on Romania is plenty but still debatable.

[Cow]

It is true it is 4 spaces away from russia instead of 5…. but is it really going to make germany great again?

[larrymarx]

It’s only one space closer to Russia, but it’s 2 spaces closer to Bessarabia, Ukraine, Rostov, Volgograd, Caucasus and the Middle East. This makes the Romania major a viable purchase for strategies other than the early push for Moscow. The plan is to pump out large quantities of cheap units and seize these big income territories while doing something else like dark skies or Afrikacorps with the money you are saving from not having to pour it all into Moscow.

[Caesar-Seriona]

I’m not too sure if it’s worth the money for a USSR invasion, it basically tells your enemy that USSR and NOT UK is the target.

[larrymarx]

So what type of Russia invasion would you propose that leaves the UK feeling like they might still be a target?

[Caesar-Seriona]

Straight infantry build followed by a naval build is the best sign of Germany either going west or east because you can straight up fake Sea Lion and take the fleet and just dump an invasion against USSR in the north.

[larrymarx]

Well, what you propose is probably a viable strategy, but it’s very specialized and the fact that it threatens both the UK and USSR doesn’t mean it’s the best strategy and we should all adopt it. Also, my question would be whether the dual threat and the immediate capture of the Leningrad objective can offset all the income from the south you’re foregoing and all the money you spent on transports without taking London.

Back to the original point: unless you build full naval for a turn as in the Sealion fake that you propose, UK is going to realize pretty fast that it isn’t the target whether or not Germany has built a Romania IC, so the “giveaway” of Germany’s strategy isn’t really an argument against the Romania major.

Keep in mind that buying the factory on turn 2 after an ambiguous buy on turn 1 does slow down the UK for a turn by forcing them to account for the possibility of Sealion. Also, if the UK lets down their guard, you could consider a late Sealion under some circumstances. In this case, the Romania IC could help because you can drop 10 infantry a turn to link up with your forces as you retreat from Moscow or to defend your territory if you decide to send the initial wave of troops south to the Middle East. The factory also opens up more strategies that don’t involve spending every dime on the Eastern front. For example, you could strengthen your air force instead of buying expensive ground units.

What I’m getting at is that the Romania major may actually help you target the UK in the long run, or at least keep the option open.

[Requester45]

Honestly I have come to like the “Dark Skies” strategy but with my own little twist. In reality you don’t need more than about 10 bombers maybe even 8 would do the trick. For me the Luftwaffe is the key to German success, and this has been tried and true for me. I try to stack the eastern front, while building planes in Western Germany. This threatens the UK keeping them occupied, and with the range of the bombers, even a small amount of German ground units can be effective. For instance if Germany only had 10 infantry (from Berlin) and a few artillery with maybe a tank or two push for Novgorod and used 10 bombers in support, it would take a hell of alot or Russian troops to stop that. Further and further into the game, Germany produces Mechs and Tanks to push push push while the Luftwaffe just decimates anything in its path. I think that the proper G1 purchase is a destroyer, transport, and Heavy Bomber. The following turn with around 70 IPC’s you can purchase 5 Heavy Bombers and a tank or two. This would put you already at 8 bombers as well as plenty of fighters and tacs to handle business. It becomes very difficult for Russia to stop a strong Luftwaffe.

[Caesar-Seriona]

I’m not saying my strait is perfect. I am just pointing out a plan that UK and USSR can’t tell which is being invaded first. I feel a major in Romania is a sign that UK is going to be ignored.

[Cow]

Check it out. Major IC = 30 ipc right? That is 30 infantry that could be mechanized.

[larrymarx]

But you can’t mechanize artillery.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

A minor IC in W.Ukraine will do the job if you prefer to build an IC.

With a G1 build IC in Romania, your options are really limited.

If i would be the Allied player and it is my UK turn, my Buy will be an AB for Gib. pr Egypt  and an IC for Egypt.
No need to stack London since your Initiative in London is gone.

A mid game IC would be interesting in Romania if i see Russia stacking up like a King and a neutral crush (NC) is in sight but that depends on my income as an Axis player.

As Germany you want to be aggressiv.
“Nicht kleckern sondern klotzen” was Guderians Motto wich means to not come in low, come in massive!

AetV

[Karl7]

Ah, the old MIC in Romania…. that used to be an old standby strategy in the early days when G40 first came out…

But the strategy wained with time for all the reasons stated above.  It’s such a heavy investment depriving Germany of early units and telegraphs pretty loudly Germany’s strategy.  (screaming actually)

I think the better move is to buy a couple transports and shuck infantry from Berlin to Leningrad.  You basically get the same result (i.e. infantry 4 moves way from Moscow) and less cost and more benefits:  4 transports (plus 1 on board) for 28 instead of 30 for a MIC that can’t be redeployed like the transports.

Of course there is the issue the Romanian MIC covers the southern flank of the Eastern front, but usually that resolves itself once Germany can stack Bryansk.

But, hey, sometimes old ideas can make a comeback.  Maybe there is something there that can be rejuvenated.  I will think on this…  :lol:

[PainState]

@Karl7:

Ah, the old MIC in Romania…. that used to be an old standby strategy in the early days when G40 first came out…

But the strategy wained with time for all the reasons stated above.�  It’s such a heavy investment depriving Germany of early units and telegraphs pretty loudly Germany’s strategy.�  (screaming actually)

I think the better move is to buy a couple transports and shuck infantry from Berlin to Leningrad.�  You basically get the same result (i.e. infantry 4 moves way from Moscow) and less cost and more benefits:�  4 transports (plus 1 on board) for 28 instead of 30 for a MIC that can’t be redeployed like the transports.

Of course there is the issue the Romanian MIC covers the southern flank of the Eastern front, but usually that resolves itself once Germany can stack Bryansk.

But, hey, sometimes old ideas can make a comeback.�  Maybe there is something there that can be rejuvenated.�  I will think on this…�  :lol:

Well, it seems I stumbled through a bush and stuck my foot into the skeleton of a old, has been, 1940 tactic.

Maybe those old hand, discarded tactics need to make a come back. Instead of the standard opening turn moves that are all the rage or the classic mad man rush to Moscow and if I do not win by the end of Turn 8 I quit plan of attack.  :lol:

:-D :-o

[Ichabod]

Keep in mind that in the G40 1st edition, Berlin had a minor IC on it (I think). I believe that was the reason that a major or minor IC was often placed on Romania. That would have been done in those days probably whether Sea Lion was going to happen or not.

[taamvan]

The answer?

Mechanized Infantry Instead.

You already have 26 production spaces, plus 6 more Russian ones.  After you grab the frontline Russian factories, Romania fades.  Wouldn’t it make more sense to spend the 30+30 (to buy there the 2nd turn) to instead buy 5 bombers to ensure the above occurs?

[Caesar-Seriona]

@taamvan:

The answer?

Mechanized Infantry Instead.

You already have 26 production spaces, plus 6 more Russian ones.   After you grab the frontline Russian factories, Romania fades.   Wouldn’t it make more sense to spend the 30+30 (to buy there the 2nd turn) to instead buy 5 bombers to ensure the above occurs?

Good point, and it’s not like the USSR player is going to stack units on the western flank, s/he can’t defend it.

[simon33]

@aequitas:

A minor IC in W.Ukraine will do the job if you prefer to build an IC.

Quite. The combination of 6 artillery/turn from Ukraine & W Ukraine plus a bunch of Mech inf from Leningrad and Germany is enough. Indeed, German income can’t really support even that, let alone a major IC on Romania.