War and Peace (2012)

[CWO Marc]

I’ve had a quick look through the index of posts in the Other Games section of the forum and (unless I’ve missed it) there doesn’t seem to be a thread about this game…so I thought I’d ask if anyone on the forum has ever played it.

I stumbled across it in a roundabout way.  I was looking at the Wikipedia article on A&A and, for fun, I followed the “Francais” link on the left side of the page to call up the equivalent article on the French version of Wikipedia.  It’s pretty short, and it’s quite out of date (for example it refers to the forthcoming publication of A&A 1914 in March or April 2013), and it includes an unintentionally funny photograph of a warped-fuselage Zero fighter sculpt – but anyway, the part that surprised me was the statement that a new Axis & Allies Napoleonics variant has just come out.  A quick check on BoardGameGeek showed that there’s no such game as Axis & Allies Napoleonics; rather, it’s a phrase that’s been unofficially applied to this game:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/120547/war-and-peace

According to the blurb on the BGG page, “War and Peace is a game that allows players to recreate the fight for Europe from 1805 to 1815. The game is designed for play by two players, one player being the French player and the other player is the British. Each player also controls one of the major countries of France, Britain, Austria, Russia, or Spain. Prussia is also in the game but starts neutral. The countries of France, Britain, Russia, Austria, Prussia, and Spain are represented by infantry, artillery, cavalry, naval units. The countries of France and Britain are at war throughout the game. The countries of Russia, Austria, Prussia, and Spain become neutral, conquered neutrals, French allies, or British allies through the use of diplomatic resources or military conquest. France starts out strong militarily with the aid of the Spanish navy and a strong French army. Austria and Russia, when united, have strong armies while England rules the waves and buys influence and allies. Victory is determined by the conquest of France or Britain, or causing the isolation of Britain through political and economic means. The fate of Europe rests in your hands.”

There’s also a discussion thread here…

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/905876/its-not-axis-and-allies

…whose title is pretty self-explanatory.  The poster, however, does note some resemblances between the two games, including the part about the plastic units and the poker chips (though on the accompanying pictures the infantry pieces look ridiculously small compared to the size of the chips --unless, perhaps, it’s the chips that are oversized compared to the minature A&A ones).

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody here has had any experience playing this particular game.

[Nowhere Man]

Sorry for being late to the party, but yeah, I have this game, it’s awesome… it literally is Axis and Allies Napoleon… the game designer even mentioned in the back of the rulebook that he played the heck out of Axis and Allies and wanted to make a game based on the system covering a different time period… he first started doing an Axis and Allies Civil War game, but changed it to the Napoleonic wars because it had more major powers (more players) involved… but it has a purchase phase, a combat move, combat resolution (on the combat board), non combat movement, count resources and collect income (sound familiar?).

The major differences (between A&A and W&P) is that W&P has a diplomatic system where you can sway certain powers to change to neutral and/or flip allegiances (as often happened during the Napoleonic wars). France and Britain are always at war, but Spain, Austria, Prussia and Russia can flip sides. Another difference is the leaders of Wellington and Napoleon are in the game… they act kinda like “combined arms artillery”, in that they increase the firepower of infantry on attack by 1 if led by Napoleon or defense by 1 if led by Wellington.

It’s an awesome game if you like A&A and/or Napoleonic wars… it also plays a little quicker than A&A… probably around 3 hours for a game, depending on variables of course. I’m not sure if it’s still in-print, it came out in 2012, but you can still find copies on E-Bay as with anything else… the official name of the game is:

Worthington Games War & Peace (absolutely NOT to be confused with a game of the same name made by Avalon Hill three decades earlier).

[Private-Panic]

Thanks very much CWO and Nowhere. I am just ordering this game. wittmann and Credulous have said they will play it if I get it. :-)

[Wolfshanze]

Hey Private Panic… I recently got this game… like what everyone else is saying, this is Axis and Allies: Napoleon… it flat-out is an A&A game, just set in Napoleonic Europe. If you like Napoleon and you like Axis and Allies, this is a must have game. It had an original (and apparently limited) print run in 2012 and I don’t think its been reprinted, so with time, this game will probably become harder and harder to get… if you (or anyone else) is interested, now is the time to act if you don’t already have this game.

I wrote a review on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OU6NZA2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1#customerReviews

I’m also modifying this game as much as I can to improve it… from cases for the units and other things I normally do… the game comes with tiny cardboard counters for Napoleon and Wellington which I found sad… I replaced them with 54mm Napoleon and Wellington miniatures and I’m working on a printable version of the map which I will put on a canvas with rubber backing game mat (I know a shop that makes these)… unfortunately my map making skills may not be up to the same level of others on this board, but I am trying… I made 8 image scans of the map and am trying to stitch them together as best I can. It’s a work in progress, but this is a great game.

[General 6 Stars]

Welcome back

[Private-Panic]

Hey Wolf. Hope that you and the kids are well?

I have printed larger maps for my A&A games, so would appreciate it if you are willing to share your efforts when finished.

Where did you get the Napoleon and Wellington miniatures from?

Lastly - as SS as said - welcome back to the forum. :-)

[Wolfshanze]

The kids are doing great… I actually got them “into Axis and Allies” by getting them to play War and Peace and the original 1980s A&A, which I have put a lot of time and effort into sprucing up (my old copy was a mess)… I also got Anniversary and am working on multiple projects on Anniversary… got a map printed, having a custom A&A dice tray made, and am repainting units, along with my other customizations.

On War and Peace, I did a lot of work on it as well… new storage trays, new leaders, and this map project… i’m attaching (a shrunk-down) version of my printable map… my original file is much larger and in PNG format. The game map for W&P is a bit of a mess… the box it comes in is much smaller than a 1941/42 A&A box, so the cardboard map is folded down to 8 separate sections with a lot of creases and “flappy parts” for a lack of a better term, that after having gotten used to printed flat vinyl A&A maps, I just have a hard time being happy with this 8-part floppy hot mess. I scanned all 8 pieces and have been stitching them together in a paint program… from the sample below you can see i’ve pretty much eliminated the board crease completely from France… i’m still working on other parts of the map… I eventually intend to have the map printed on a custom game mat… I already had one done in this manner for King of Tokyo, so it will work well on War and Peace… i love the canvas and rubber map, having it done at this shop:
https://www.inkedgaming.com/collections/custom/products/two-player-custom-playmat

Anyways, here’s the pics of my in-work map project (shrunk down) and my Napoleonic miniatures… oh, they are Reeves 54mm lead toy soldiers… they have some weight to them, but they are designed for play and (obviously) stand-out on the map when leading forces… as with many rare things, I found them on E-Bay… they ain’t at my local Walmart, that’s for sure. I spent a lot of time searching for the right pieces to lead my W&P armies. My “back-up” plan was some pre-painted plastic Napoleonic toy soldiers I found… they weren’t “technically” Napoleon and Wellington but they would have passed as leaders and looked a lot better than the tiny plastic cardboard chits that come with the game (lame).

[Private-Panic]

Thanks for sharing Wolf. When I have received the game I will decide what to do.

[Witt]

I, too, am happy you  are back .
Thank you fir your time to describe the game . I really want to play it.

[bgugs]

I have this game and certainly enjoy playing it. My question to you guys is how you balanced it? I am not sure if I am doing something wrong but it seems like France should run through Austria and eventually Russia and that Britain would have to spend way to much to get Prussia into the fight to make a difference. Has anyone else had this problem?

[Private-Panic]

The game arrived on Friday, I read the rules on Saturday, played a solo game on Sunday and then played two games with a friend on Monday! :-o

Based on that introduction I would say this is a great game. The map, variety of playing pieces and income levels are more reminiscent of 1941 than the other A&A variants I have played, which makes this an evening game. But the additional alliance and diplomacy elements add a lot of options. We both really enjoyed it.

Having another evening A&A type game is really valuable to me. I reckon I will persuade all the friends and family that enjoy 1941 but not more complex variants to give this a go. It might then encourage some of them to try the other A&A variants.

@Wolfshanze:

On War and Peace, I did a lot of work on it as well… new storage trays, new leaders, and this map project… i’m attaching (a shrunk-down) version of my printable map… i’m still working on other parts of the map…

Wolf - I would be very grateful for a copy of your map when you have finished it, if you are happy to share.

@bgugs:

I have this game and certainly enjoy playing it. My question to you guys is how you balanced it? I am not sure if I am doing something wrong but it seems like France should run through Austria and eventually Russia and that Britain would have to spend way to much to get Prussia into the fight to make a difference. Has anyone else had this problem?

bgugs - We played two games as I said. France won the first and Britain the second. In the second game Britain spent all its money in the first two turns on diplomatic rolls for Prussia, bringing them into the war in turn 2.

[Witt]

Thanks PP. Can’t wait until we can play it.

[Wolfshanze]

@Private:

…I would say this is a great game. The map, variety of playing pieces and income levels are more reminiscent of 1941 than the other A&A variants I have played, which makes this an evening game. But the additional alliance and diplomacy elements add a lot of options. We both really enjoyed it.

Wolf - I would be very grateful for a copy of your map when you have finished it, if you are happy to share.

Glad you enjoyed the game… it is on the light side of A&A in terms of complexity and length of play, but I count that as a plus in terms of using it as an intro to A&A style games, and something that doesn’t demand a huge time commitment.

As for the map, I fully intend on sharing with anyone who wants it… I haven’t yet finished smoothing out the board seems from my stitch job, but as soon as that’s done,  I will share the full size map… I’ll release it in original PNG format so it can be easily modified if anyone wants to make customized changes to the board. Of course,  I think the scan job went pretty good… it should port over pretty good to printing a smooth one piece map of whatever size you want.

So Private Panic, what did you think of the great Napoleon and Wellington cardboard chits? Are you sticking with them as your leaders or will you do something different?  How are you storing your pieces?

[Private-Panic]

@wittmann:

Thanks PP. Can’t wait until we can play it.

You were going to let me know when you were sufficiently over your last eye operation for us to meet up again?

[Private-Panic]

@Wolfshanze:

As for the map, I fully intend on sharing with anyone who wants it… I haven’t yet finished smoothing out the board seems from my stitch job, but as soon as that’s done,  I will share the full size map… I’ll release it in original PNG format so it can be easily modified if anyone wants to make customized changes to the board. Of course,  I think the scan job went pretty good… it should port over pretty good to printing a smooth one piece map of whatever size you want.

Thanks very much Wolf.

@Wolfshanze:

So Private Panic, what did you think of the great Napoleon and Wellington cardboard chits? Are you sticking with them as your leaders or will you do something different?  How are you storing your pieces?

I guess I will replace the cardboard chits at some point. But storage is not a problem in my non-OCD world Wolf! :roll: Plastic bags work fine! :-o

[Wolfshanze]

@Private:

I guess I will replace the cardboard chits at some point. But storage is not a problem in my non-OCD world Wolf! :roll: Plastic bags work fine! :-o

Nooooooooooooooo!  :-o

Now I won’t be able to sleep at night, knowing that across the Atlantic your War and Peace units are floating around loosely in plastic bags, not properly stored in a storage bin… my OCD senses are going crazy!

But please replace those cardboard chits, how can a lowly cardboard chit lead armies of 3D sculpted army units?

[Private-Panic]

Chastised as I am, I will gladly play with any Napoleon or Wellington figures you kindly send over …… :-)

[bgugs]

bgugs - We played two games as I said. France won the first and Britain the second. In the second game Britain spent all its money in the first two turns on diplomatic rolls for Prussia, bringing them into the war in turn 2.

Did Spain not take Gibraltar at that point? The best strategy I have been able to come up with for Britain is to spend heavy on Gibraltar to kill Spain while trying to find the money to bring Prussia in. In my experience if you don’t fight through Gibraltar Britain can’t get the required troops to the mainland. Maybe there is something I am missing but it just seems like Spain needs to be contained before Britain can throw money at Prussia. It has also been a while since I played this so maybe I should go back and try it again. I am glad you guys enjoy it too. It is definitely a fun little game.

[Private-Panic]

Yes bgugs. Gibraltar did fall, never to be recaptured. GB used its naval dominance to land troops all around Europe’s coasts instead, wherever an opportunity presented itself, causing France and Spain lots of problems.

More importantly, Prussia was able to combine with Russia, eventually squeezing France out of Vienna and bringing Austria back into the war.

Based on an experience of only 2 games it seemed clear that Prussia contributed far more than Gibralter would have done. Perhaps my next game will prove differently! :-D

[Wolfshanze]

@Private:

Chastised as I am, I will gladly play with any Napoleon or Wellington figures you kindly send over …… :-)

Do a search of E-Bay… look for 54mm Napoleon or Duke of Wellington miniatures… or try the poor mans avenue, get a bunch of toy soldiers and grab one of the officer looking dudes for each side:

https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Soldiers-Napoleonic-Infantry-Waterloo/dp/B00HYHI6LW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523381766&sr=8-1&keywords=napoleonic+soldiers

https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Soldiers-Napoleonic-Infantry-Waterloo/dp/B00HYJOPJM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1523381766&sr=8-2&keywords=napoleonic+soldiers