How to best threaten German Baltic fleet?

@Panzerboy0191
I think there is general agreement German bombers are awesome. They threaten the Allied Atlantic Fleet in the Channel and off Gibraltar, the Allied Med Fleet, Moscow and Egypt. Having said that not sure buying bombers before you have enough ground troops to push Russia back is a good idea.

I have played a succesfull game where Germany was able to take the West Indies and Strategically bomb Eastern USA

Also your Allied opponent was obviously weak. The German Navy should never have control of the Atlantic.

I’ll add to Grim’s post a small note.

If able, start bombing Moscow.  Use Japan’s bomber(s) if needed.  They can hit from Western China.  Have Japan keep casually gobbling up Eastern Russia to pinch their economy more.

I do mean the US should not build anything Atlantic side unless the Axis are contesting the waters. Yes of course don’t let Germany or Italy sit on Gibraltar and threaten stuff they shouldn’t Otherwise, when where Japan is knocked out with a 100% US effort I often lose. When it’s like 80/20 spending by the US or going full blown Europe side, I’m more likely to win them. It’s way easier for Germany to spam a bunch of infantry/ mech infantry and bombers and cover everything while still building for like a round 10 Moscow.

Whereas a hard effort against Japan from the north by Russia and everything else is really hard. Their planes can’t be everywhere and they don’t have enough ground if the allies just keep shoving everything. Come play me on triplea sometime.

Russia and the UK can hold Moscow and the Middle East long enough for the US to get Japan in check and then switch their builds at that critical moment.

Playing the allies is really hard and the timing has to be practically perfect.

@taamvan:

Just played Game 103, not feeling Malaya.   Its not usually taken on J2, more likely J3 and then only placing factory on J4 and units J5, too slow.   J2-J3 anywhere else.

Japan and UK money is perfectly balanced so that if they are running an MiC (or 2) they don’t have $$ for the other stuff they want and need.

Actually just tried it for the first time. I had only one IC, in FIC and needed more troops to take down India but no more for China. Seems to be working in this case.

@AndreasI:

Just some thoughts from someone who hasn’t really done the math nor played enough rounds to actually see this tactic through.

Can US really be at war, at their own initiative, with Germany on turn 3 (Combat/Movement phase?) so they can actually move to Gibraltar at all? Or are there any second edition additional rules that I have missed?

And then on down to the tactics on getting a strong fleet supporting units into Normandy or other mainland european regions:

Am I correct in assuming that Germany loosing it’s entire bomber force against, let’s say, a strong naval presence from US/UK equals a lost game for Germany? I am aware that Japan can still grow to be a monster and win the game for the axis anyhow but let’s keep focus on europe for now. Creating a fleet according to Nippon-kokus suggestion (or similar) would create a situation that requires Germany to respond with their bombers. Once there is a strong static fleet that Germany can’t attack without risking it’s entire air force it’s quite easy for the allies to maintain that ratio of units so that it stays safe. And what happens then? The US can land units basically every turn once the shuttle is running. 8 or 10 units are not frightening, I admit. Easily countered by Germany but the way I see it is that Germany from then on are forced to use their bombers plus land units each turn against a landing force. Using german bombers on that front every turn makes them unusable against the russians. I can certainly see where there could be a bit of trouble breaking through russian lines.

The way I see it, if the US can do this, why would Dark Skies really matter? Would buying 20 Infantry and 10 Tanks be any different? Germany still couldn’t kill the Allied fleet, would still have to divert forces from Russia, would still face the Allies landing every turn…

…and on top of it, It’d be harder for Germany to counter attack.

Seems like Dark Skies is still an optimal strategy against a US invasion.

A question for research, thanks for your participation.

1  Buy infantry/rt round 1,
Kill france with all available ground, try to keep tanks and mechs
Kill 106, 110, and 111 (maybe try to bb strafe 111) might be forced to land some stuff in holland if u did not take the berlin tac as a casualty.
Take out yugo with enough to 1 shot it or try to strafe it for italy.
  Take bulg and finland while stacking slovakia with everything from berlin and from poland
  Land hungarian/poland air in south italy
  Stack 112 if you can do it safely otherwise, go for 113, drop denmark garrison in norway

2  Buy at least 1 dd and 1 sub to handle the russian sub and the NO then either more slow, or mech/tank
Kill 97 if uk has stuff there, or other med navy
Kill surviving UK navy if you can
Kill Normandy unless u want italy to have
  Land in alex if italy stacks there
  Send tanks and mechs from france to yugo
  Put every ground unit in range on to Romania
  Berlin units to poland
  Norway units to finland

3  Buy all fast (maybe a replacement plane or some boats aswell) preferably mech heavy
Declare on Russia
Stack bess heavy
Kill poland and baltic if you can do it cheaply
Kill karelia and vyborg, if high novgorod garrison, go to karelia light untill he moves out
If russia pulled back out of novgorod and belarus, u might be able to stack poland/karelia heavy
Kill russian sub if it sits in 125, have your sub in 125 to cancel NO
So if you can stack both bess and epl safely, then thats good, just stay focused on bess.
  Non-com berlin fast to epl or Romania
  Check on how much air you need to help italy
  Make sure italy is getting some units to follow your army to can-open for you.

4  Buy more fast, maybe some slow to help garrison western europe if you have to.
Kill west Ukraine
Stack Ukraine heavy!!
Kill bela and novgorod if possible
Try to have italians in range of can-opening rostov
  Shuffle more fast units east
  Use navy/air accordingly
  keep sending italian fast units to russia, 3 or 4 tanks/mechs would be nice to have with the germans.

5 and Beyond
Have italy can-open rostov so germany can fight for volg and cauc, stack bryansk of possible, keep russians in moscow.  Eventually, you will have russia stuck while you have moscow surrounded on at least 3 sides.  With germany making around 80, you can start pressuring persia while japan is pressuring india, eventually, India or Persia will fall.  The longer you can keep italy going the better.  Try to invest in destroyers if you can with scramble ready in south ita, this makes italian navy hard to hit.  Make sure, you hold west germany, and berlin at all costs, watch out for the denmark opener followed by UK berlin attack. Fast units in west germany with slow in france can help counter a normandy stack.

If the allies are heavy in the atlantic, then you will need japan to kill india asap and maybe pressure russia.  If allies are all pac, then that is more you can spend on russia.

I don’t see a reason to expose your fleet early as Japan.  That said, even playing games with the Americans, albeit fun; is counterproductive.

You don’t gain much as you can still bait the US into buy full Pacific early in the game against a well-versed player, so that school of thought is out.

Carolines don’t come into play until much later in the game (read securing Calcutta) and VC win is Hawaii or Sydney.  However, I’m banking that Hawaii is “easier” to take once removing the fleet than Sydney.  This is primarily due to the Minor IC being able to put out multiple units round after round until you arrive with an Amphib that requires the Carolines.

Its much easier to go after Hawaii as it is a single move from Tokyo anyways (barring any blocks).  Having to fight for the Carolines and then Sydney seems less… efficient?