How to best threaten German Baltic fleet?

[bakerbei]

Hi there, very new to the forum, not so new to Global 1940. I’ve played maybe 8 or 10 games to completion, and have a preliminary grasp on the general Allied strategy.

My question is, how to best sink the German’s Baltic fleet? The typical fleet we have by G2, G3 is a CV with two fighters, a cruiser, 2 or 3 transports and the 3 fighter scramble. This fleet usually persists until the end of the game, constantly threatening Leningrad.

I haven’t found a good way to threaten this fleet because Denmark/Norway is constantly retaken. Any advice?

[barnee]

Hi @bakerbei

As an intermediate player, my advice would be a one two punch with the yanks and the brits. Straight left followed up by a right cross and if you’re concerned they might get up, then put the boots to them :)

It’ll take a while to build the power necessary to accomplish it. Seems as if lenningrad should fall by mid game, although sometimes the soviets will take and hold Scandanavia.

I’m sure more experienced players will chime in with some detailed advice. You may want to look here if you haven’t already https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/40354/allied-playbook-g40-collection-of-essays-compiled-by-jacobgeo24-nov-18-19-2023

Welcome to the site :)

[shadowhawk]

@bakerbei

If playing OOB rules you can just build a bunch of subs with the UK.
Then take denmark and norway with the US and use the subs + airpower to sink this fleet.
If he doesnt build a destroyer just go with the subs and without air power.
CV+ cruiser vs 4 subs = dead fleet.

If you play YG setup, do the same but take with UK and use US subs.

[bakerbei]

@barnee Thank you! I kind of came to the same conclusion in the 24 hours it took for my post to get approved haha. I appreciate the consensus though!

[bakerbei]

@shadowhawk Thank you! I’ve also come to the same conclusion that subs+airpower is the way to go to challenge that fleet. Combining this with my plan to use subs to convoy sz97, the US will be building quite a few subs haha.

[The Captain]

Hi bakebei,

My best advice is attached to this post:

1. Strategy Guide Germany.pdf

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@The-Captain

I think he’s referring to the Allied side, not the Axis side.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

You don’t have to sink the German fleet, just force them to shelter behind Denmark for safety.

If they actually have a fleet large enough to stand toe to toe with the Allied Atlantic fleet, the Allies have won concur it means Moscow won’t fall for a very long time. Having multiple German carriers is a guaranteed L for the Axis.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris

👍👍👍

[shadowhawk]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in How to best threaten German Baltic fleet?:

You don’t have to sink the German fleet, just force them to shelter behind Denmark for safety.

If they actually have a fleet large enough to stand toe to toe with the Allied Atlantic fleet, the Allies have won concur it means Moscow won’t fall for a very long time. Having multiple German carriers is a guaranteed L for the Axis.

That fleet does allow it to keep trading norway so sinking the fleet is not required but it does help.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@shadowhawk

It’s only a problem if you’re attacking Norway, like if you’re focusing on the Mediterranean or Japan.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@SuperbattleshipYamato and Norway is nearly impossible to capture and hold against a skilled Axis player who leaves a big stack in Finland and can support the counterattack with the German Air Force. The Allies to do a KGF strategy and the Axis needs to be focusing on capturing Moscow for the Norway landing to succeed.

Otherwise Normandy, S France, and Greece are much easier beachheads.

[shadowhawk]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris
If the units are in finland they are not near moscow.
If the airforce is used against finland its not used against russia.

Having that fleet there allows the germans to just move units from W-ger to norway to trade and to use those finland troops to attack moscow. They are a lot closer.

But even if you have a big stack in finland and no navy whats stopping me from dropping 2-4 inf and 1-2 AA guns in norway? Either your big stack moves in and its gone next round. Or you airforce is used and risks losing a plane or 2. Its not like the AA in London is doing anything anyway.,

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@shadowhawk you are talking about 2 or 3 loaded transports with 20-30 PUs of value. Germany takes it back losing a plane and a couple ground units. Maybe doesn’t even lose the plane.

Better off trading units in Normandy where you can adequately protect those transports instead of a suicide mission. The Allies can come out ahead in the exchanges.

[shadowhawk]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris

It depends on the size of your fleet, the 3 fighter scamble isnt always that big a difference.
Attacking norway + denmark also requires him to trade both or lose the NO as well.

Also it gives you a staging ground for going to leninggrad which causes him to lose even more NO income. He can ignore Normandy as you cant do much from that location, its only 2 ipcs not a big deal.
Norway is 8ipcs lost.

So its not 20-30pu its more like 6-12pu, as the AA guns from london are basically free.

[Pinch1]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in How to best threaten German Baltic fleet?:

You don’t have to sink the German fleet, just force them to shelter behind Denmark for safety.

If they actually have a fleet large enough to stand toe to toe with the Allied Atlantic fleet, the Allies have won concur it means Moscow won’t fall for a very long time. Having multiple German carriers is a guaranteed L for the Axis.

I couldn’t disagree more. That fleet keeps the allies from landing troops in Europe if it’s big enough. Except it’s not supposed to be big enough to go toe to toe, it needs to be big enough that it can’t be moved.

Yes Russia survives longer, but if you know what you’re doing with Japan that’s a non factor.

Instead of investing in land units to fail
miserably at defending the dozen or so places an allied fleet can strike without reprisals put those IPCs into a navy and prevent the landing in the first place.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@Pinch1

Then the Allies can just hit the Mediterranean instead, while there wouldn’t be enough German units to defend Rome. In my experience it’s quite hard for the German fleet to advance into the Atlantic, away from land-based air support.

And German units don’t have to be in those dozen territories. Per AndrewAAGamer’s principles, you just need German units in a small number of areas to counterattack:

Western Germany (covers Holland Belgium, Northern Italy and Denmark, also Southern France and Normandy Bordeaux for mechanized units)

Paris (covers Holland Belgium, Northern Italy, Western Germany Normandy Bordeaux, and Southern France, also Denmark for mechanized units)

Southern Italy (protects Rome)

Norway (Scandanavian flank)

[Pinch1]

@SuperbattleshipYamato

Let them move into the med. US has to truck transports in a chain which would need to be protected at Gibraltar AND in the med. A large German fleet full of carriers just dumps the air power to the med. Fighters can reach from sz112 to the Italian coast. They can’t cover both.

If both Germany and Italy invest heavily in fleets from the start the allies have to push in with their fleets to protect the transports exposing a weakness in the supply chain. With heavy German naval power you have the flexibility to cut that off and the allies can’t push or sustain an attack. They get one or two dumps of troops but not enough to keep the beach head. It will fail without continuous reinforcements.

It’s minimal investment for Germany to build that navy. They start with most the fighters. USA has to build from zero. If the axis remove the transport protection that buys them 3-4 turns until they face another significant threat via invasion. That’s enough time to make another second push on Russia. They’ll make no more money because Japan ate up Central Asia and is bombing their factories to oblivion from Khazikstan.

Give it a try, plus when allies push their navy into the med Germany can just convoy the hell out of UK freely. I’m telling you go HARD navy with Germany.

You gonna spend all that money on German land units on the continent that are just gonna die. Allies can just pick the weakest part. Spend it on ships and fighters instead. Production wise it’s hard to keep up with just a ground war.

Trust me I’ve been playing with this for years and I can’t find a reliable way to push it. Best I can do is find 40% odds victory to establish the beach head with allies and those are not good odds to stake the game on. Fail at that and it’s over, there’s no coming back. Allies get one shot at it.

[Cornwallis]

@Pinch1 i must say you have a solid point.
When germany has a fleet of a BB (repaired Bismarck) and its G1 fleet purchase of a destroyer, carrier and sub, parked left of denmark that is a problem for the allies.
If he buys a sub a turn he has enough to attack a pretty strong allied fleet next to gibraltar.
Yes russia will be stronger but Japan will grow and a steady german march of 10 or more inf buy per turn starting G2 will ultimately push russia back.

I struggle for a solution and have been thinking of chucking US troops to the middle east via West Africa.
It is out of german range and fast units can reach egypt in 2 turns from there.
This needs to be combined with a sub warfare against germany and italy.

[Cornwallis]

@Pinch1 i have made a topic on the forum called the Sahara express