L20 cyanight(axis) vs farmboy(Allies+16) BM3.3

@farmboy said in L20 cyanight(axis) vs farmboy(Allies+16) BM3.3:

I don’t think I’ve typically played this here the way the rules intend. We would actually need to edit out all the neutral inf in afghanistan and then edit in inf of the power of your choice. I’m fine with that actually, if you wanted to do that and adjust Japan’s turn (if that was the power you chose).

In the board game, you need a way to show that there are fewer inf than the graphics indicate. so if you attack afghanistan with russia and kill 1 inf, and then retreat, you need a way to indicate that there are three left for the rest of the game (and that it is in the new non neutral state). So the rules tell you to take any powers inf units (since in the board game there are no neutral colored units). But they are still independent regardless of what color pieces you use. They cant go anywhere or do anything. Opposing power can attack them at a later time or an allied power can ncm a land unit in and grab them same as if they were still friendly neutral. Only difference is that air units can fly over the territory.

If the attack upon the formerly neutral territory is
unsuccessful (the territory is not captured), any remaining
defending units stay in the territory but can’t move. The
territory remains uncontrolled (place a national control
marker on it face down to indicate its new status), but units
from the side it’s now allied with can move into it and take
control of it and its remaining units in the same way as if it
were a friendly neutral.

TripleA makes the replacing with power of your choice unnecessary, since tripleA has neutral unit graphics. And tripleA makes you DOW on neutrals just to make game mechanics easier (converting all strict neutrals into friendly neutrals or unfriendly neutrals). Its not a rule, just something that makes it easier for tripleA to deal with how it allows or disallows certain things. And a reminder, that tripleA still messes up quite a few of the neutral rules about flying over (unless its fixed in latest version).

@cyanight said in L20 cyanight(axis) vs farmboy(Allies+16) BM3.3:

Attacking a neutral territory doesn’t make it not neutral. All it does is change the type of neutrality if it was a strict neutral.

It does though. It says in rules, it makes it allied with opposite power. It becomes its own independent power. But it cant move. But the neutral rules about air units flying over it go away. But those units cant do anything. And same as friendly neutrals, friendly real powers can NCM in and take control of the units. Its not neutral though. But every other territory that hasnt been attacked is still neutral, even if its friendly or unfriendly neutral.

So in this case, afghanistan becomes non neutral, 3 or 4 units remain there that cant move, but anybody can fly over it since its not neutral. Allies can attack it or axis can NCM a unit and take control. This is assuming russia attacked with 1 inf. Then the russian ftr can fly over it during NCM (as can any other power).

Thanks @ksmckay . I think I’m finally approaching clarity here.

So it looks to me that we can go ahead with this with the adjustments from the combat in Afghanistan. But @cyanight if you want us to get a ruling from gamerman to be sure, we can do that too. Obviously, the number of air I can have in India could be quite consequential for your next set of turns. And it is not just the Soviet fighter but potentially the US fighters in the Urals that are impacted by this.

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 11

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4.0

Game History

Round: 11

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 1 armour, 7 fighters, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans War TrueNeutral: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War

    Combat Move - Americans
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Neutral_True from Afghanistan: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Novosibirsk: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
              Americans take Finland from Germans
        1 infantry moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
        4 carriers, 1 destroyer, 2 fighters, 3 submarines and 2 transports moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 55 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

@cyanight nope but I will do so now.

@Gamerman. We have a neutral question. I, as allies, declare war on neutrals, attack Afghanistan, but fail to take it. Can I then fly over it with the allied air as an NCM or do I have to wait until it is conquered by the allies before I can travel through that air space?

@gamerman01

@farmboy said in L20 cyanight(axis) vs farmboy(Allies+16) BM3.3:

@Gamerman. We have a neutral question. I, as allies, declare war on neutrals, attack Afghanistan, but fail to take it. Can I then fly over it with the allied air as an NCM or do I have to wait until it is conquered by the allies before I can travel through that air space?

@cyanight note that I posted my move below on the assumption I was reading the rules right and because I had time to kill. The main thing was a scramble question for 6. Obviously we can wait until we hear from Gamerman and this would likely change a bit if I have it wrong.

@Adam514 We have a neutral question. I, as allies, declare war on neutrals, attack Afghanistan, but fail to take it. Can I then fly over it with the allied air as an NCM or do I have to wait until it is conquered by the allies or axis before I can travel through that air space?

@farmboy You can, as soon as any territory is attacked, it can be flown over by any side.

@Adam514 Thanks for the clarification. @cyanight are we good to continue?

TripleA Turn Summary: Americans round 11

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4.0

Game History

Round: 11

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 1 armour, 7 fighters, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans War TrueNeutral: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War

    Combat Move - Americans
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Neutral_True from Afghanistan: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Novosibirsk: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
              Americans take Finland from Germans
        1 infantry moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
        4 carriers, 1 destroyer, 2 fighters, 3 submarines and 2 transports moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 55 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone

    Combat - Americans
        Americans creates battle in territory 6 Sea Zone
        Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
        Battle in 63 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 1 submarine
            Japanese defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the Japanese lost in 63 Sea Zone
            Americans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from Germans, taking 63 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport
        Battle in 6 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 5 fighters, 3 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber
            Japanese defend with 1 destroyer
                Americans roll dice for 3 submarines in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 destroyer in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the Japanese lost in 6 Sea Zone
            Americans win with 5 fighters, 3 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 destroyer

    Non Combat Move - Americans
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Korea to Manchuria
        3 fighters moved from Iraq to India
        3 fighters moved from Urals to India
        1 aaGun moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Morocco to 91 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
        2 transports moved from 102 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 11 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
        1 fighter moved from Mexico to Hawaiian Islands
        1 fighter moved from Western United States to Hawaiian Islands
        1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Celebes to 44 Sea Zone
        1 battleship, 7 carriers, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 13 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry, 1 tactical_bomber and 1 transport moved from 44 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Norway to United Kingdom
        1 fighter moved from Norway to United Kingdom
        1 fighter moved from Burma to India
        5 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Caucasus to Northwest Persia

    Place Units - Americans
        7 fighters placed in Western United States
        1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Iraq
        3 infantry placed in Norway
        4 infantry placed in Central United States

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 74 PUs; end with 75 PUs
        Trigger Americans 7 North Africa Beach Head: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 80 PUs
        Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 90 PUs
        Objective Americans 8 Pacific Airfields: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 95 PUs
        Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 100 PUs
        Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 105 PUs
        Objective Americans 4 Philippines: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 110 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Americans regular : 0.00
Japanese regular : -0.33

Savegame

TripleA Turn Summary: Chinese round 11

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4.0

Game History

Round: 11

    Purchase Units - Chinese
        Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
        Chinese buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Chinese

    Place Units - Chinese
        2 infantry placed in Manchuria

    Turn Complete - Chinese
        Chinese collect 3 PUs; end with 3 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

TripleA Turn Summary: UK_Pacific round 11

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4.0

Game History

Round: 11

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 1 armour, 7 fighters, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans War TrueNeutral: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War

    Combat Move - Americans
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Neutral_True from Afghanistan: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Novosibirsk: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
              Americans take Finland from Germans
        1 infantry moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
        4 carriers, 1 destroyer, 2 fighters, 3 submarines and 2 transports moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 55 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone

    Combat - Americans
        Americans creates battle in territory 6 Sea Zone
        Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
        Battle in 63 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 1 submarine
            Japanese defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the Japanese lost in 63 Sea Zone
            Americans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from Germans, taking 63 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport
        Battle in 6 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 5 fighters, 3 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber
            Japanese defend with 1 destroyer
                Americans roll dice for 3 submarines in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 destroyer in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the Japanese lost in 6 Sea Zone
            Americans win with 5 fighters, 3 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 destroyer

    Non Combat Move - Americans
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Korea to Manchuria
        3 fighters moved from Iraq to India
        3 fighters moved from Urals to India
        1 aaGun moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Morocco to 91 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
        2 transports moved from 102 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 11 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
        1 fighter moved from Mexico to Hawaiian Islands
        1 fighter moved from Western United States to Hawaiian Islands
        1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Celebes to 44 Sea Zone
        1 battleship, 7 carriers, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 13 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry, 1 tactical_bomber and 1 transport moved from 44 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Norway to United Kingdom
        1 fighter moved from Norway to United Kingdom
        1 fighter moved from Burma to India
        5 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Caucasus to Northwest Persia

    Place Units - Americans
        7 fighters placed in Western United States
        1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Iraq
        3 infantry placed in Norway
        4 infantry placed in Central United States

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 74 PUs; end with 75 PUs
        Trigger Americans 7 North Africa Beach Head: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 80 PUs
        Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 90 PUs
        Objective Americans 8 Pacific Airfields: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 95 PUs
        Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 100 PUs
        Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 105 PUs
        Objective Americans 4 Philippines: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 110 PUs

    Purchase Units - Chinese
        Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
        Chinese buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Chinese

    Place Units - Chinese
        2 infantry placed in Manchuria

    Turn Complete - Chinese
        Chinese collect 3 PUs; end with 3 PUs

    Purchase Units - British
        British buy 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
        UK_Pacific buy 1 aaGun and 6 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - British
        1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
        1 bomber moved from Russia to Turkey
        16 infantry moved from Northwest Persia to Turkey
        1 infantry moved from Iraq to Turkey
        3 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to Afghanistan
        3 fighters moved from Persia to Afghanistan
        4 fighters moved from Urals to Afghanistan

    Combat - British
        Battle in Holland Belgium
        Battle in Turkey
            British attack with 1 bomber and 17 infantry
            Neutral_True defend with 8 infantry
                British roll dice for 1 bomber and 17 infantry in Turkey, round 2 : 2/18 hits, 3.50 expected hits
                Neutral_True roll dice for 8 infantry in Turkey, round 2 : 2/8 hits, 2.67 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Neutral_True and 2 infantry owned by the British lost in Turkey
                British roll dice for 1 bomber and 15 infantry in Turkey, round 3 : 0/16 hits, 3.17 expected hits
                Neutral_True roll dice for 6 infantry in Turkey, round 3 : 1/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the British lost in Turkey
                British roll dice for 1 bomber and 14 infantry in Turkey, round 4 : 0/15 hits, 3.00 expected hits
                Neutral_True roll dice for 6 infantry in Turkey, round 4 : 4/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                4 infantry owned by the British lost in Turkey
                British roll dice for 1 bomber and 10 infantry in Turkey, round 5 : 2/11 hits, 2.33 expected hits
                Neutral_True roll dice for 6 infantry in Turkey, round 5 : 4/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Neutral_True and 4 infantry owned by the British lost in Turkey
                British roll dice for 1 bomber and 6 infantry in Turkey, round 6 : 2/7 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                Neutral_True roll dice for 4 infantry in Turkey, round 6 : 1/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Neutral_True and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Turkey
                British roll dice for 1 bomber and 5 infantry in Turkey, round 7 : 1/6 hits, 1.50 expected hits
                Neutral_True roll dice for 2 infantry in Turkey, round 7 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Neutral_True and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Turkey
                British roll dice for 1 bomber and 4 infantry in Turkey, round 8 : 1/5 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Neutral_True roll dice for 1 infantry in Turkey, round 8 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Neutral_True lost in Turkey
            British win, taking Holland Belgium from Germans, taking Turkey from Neutral_True with 1 bomber and 4 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -15
            Casualties for British: 13 infantry
            Casualties for Neutral_True: 8 infantry
        Battle in Afghanistan
            British attack with 7 fighters and 3 infantry
            Neutral_True defend with 3 infantry
                British roll dice for 7 fighters and 3 infantry in Afghanistan, round 2 : 3/10 hits, 4.00 expected hits
                Neutral_True roll dice for 3 infantry in Afghanistan, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                3 infantry owned by the Neutral_True and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Afghanistan
            British win, taking Afghanistan from Neutral_True with 7 fighters and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
            Casualties for British: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Neutral_True: 3 infantry

    Non Combat Move - British
        7 fighters moved from Afghanistan to India
        3 aaGuns, 4 artilleries, 2 fighters, 23 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Burma to India
        1 mech_infantry moved from Malaya to Burma
        1 infantry moved from Persia to 80 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to 80 Sea Zone
        2 marines moved from Eastern Persia to 80 Sea Zone
        1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 2 infantry, 2 marines and 1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 2 marines moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
        6 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to West India
        3 aaGuns moved from Northwest Persia to Turkey
        1 bomber moved from Turkey to Persia
        1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to Normandy Bordeaux
        2 marines moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        2 cruisers, 2 marines and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 2 marines moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
        1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 mech_infantry moved from Belgian Congo to Egypt
        1 mech_infantry moved from Alexandria to Trans-Jordan
        1 fighter moved from Mexico to Hawaiian Islands
        3 infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan

    Place Units - British
        1 armour, 1 fighter and 1 mech_infantry placed in Persia
        1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Egypt
        1 artillery and 1 fighter placed in United Kingdom

    Turn Complete - British
        British collect 44 PUs; end with 44 PUs
        Trigger British 3 No Enemy Submarines: British met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 47 PUs

    Place Units - UK_Pacific
        1 aaGun and 6 infantry placed in India

    Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
        UK_Pacific collect 18 PUs; end with 18 PUs
        Trigger UK Pacific 4 No Enemy Submarines: UK_Pacific met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 21 PUs
        Some Units in India change ownership: 1 aaGun and 6 infantry

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Americans regular : 0.00
Japanese regular : -0.33
Neutral_True regular : 2.00
British regular : -9.50

Savegame

TripleA Turn Summary: French round 11

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4.0

Game History

Round: 11

    Combat Move - ANZAC

    Non Combat Move - ANZAC
        2 infantry moved from Persia to Eastern Persia

    Combat Move - French

    Turn Complete - French

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame