Pacific Allies should always attack Japan turn 2

I love the new name! They pulled a Homer! DOH!

The sneaky Karl is a pain in the ass move.  It works only once against a given opponent, though.

I always do a J1 or J2 DOW unless something goes horribly wrong in mainland Asia and I need my air force to clean up disaster zones.  The Axis needs to get their income up to ~150 as soon as possible or they will inevitably lose the game no matter the strategic positions on the board.  The Allies can play a game of attrition if they are will to trade units at a slightly bad ratio of ~1 : 1.2

The only reasons that I would do a UK2 DOW is if Japan messes up with their naval strategy or if I knew stacking Yunnan would prevent Japan from attacking that territory on J3.  Otherwise the extra round of delaying the US from entering the war is usually catastrophic for the Allies.

I would usually do it if it means I can defend Yunnan J3 but not likely otherwise. A few IPCs aren’t a big enough swing for the allies to justify the opportunities it gives Japan and removes from USA.

@Karl7:

Hey MeinHerr, just for fun I checked out your meet up post from November 28, 2014.  Didn’t see the Sneaky Karl/Mahatma Gambit/Anzac Steamer/Gargantua’s Bane being played…  Did I miss it?

Karl….
Meetup forum does not discuss move-by-move. The purpose of Mertup is different. But on Nov 28,2014… I mentioned the fact I played the move there and WROTE THIS…, you will see it as you scroll down half-way:

[“ If at all you guys remember this game for…. you have seen something truly historic , that in my opinion has never ever been played.
I call the " Ram’s Mahatma Gambit". You know the details.
I was made fun of, and it was belittled, but on inspection, esp. against an unsuspecting opponent it is very devastating.
In my opinion it will change the game forever.
Despite everything, do take comfort in the fact that you saw it being played for the first time ever!”]

And on Nov 30th, 2014 … put that info here on the aforementioned thread.

So, hope I have connected enough dots for you to comprehend.

So, yes Harris may have called it BS… (maybe he himself was not aware)… and you and others have renamed it or even back then called to rename it.

Obviously, so some reason… my chosen term was for some unknown reason… not pleasing to some people.

However, since you brought it up in this thread earlier… in BOLD FONT Letters… I had to correct you… to just keep the record straight.
So what you choose to call it now, is up to your conscience.

(BTW, in event you did not read the whole plan… there are 2 variations… one only with UK DD… one with the UK BB and DD!)

@MeinHerr:

@Karl7:

Hey MeinHerr, just for fun I checked out your meet up post from November 28, 2014.  Didn’t see the Sneaky Karl/Mahatma Gambit/Anzac Steamer/Gargantua’s Bane being played…  Did I miss it?

I had to correct you…. to just keep the record straight.
So what you choose to call it now, is up to your conscience.

Stop MeinHerr, you are killing me…  :lol: :lol:

Don’t worry about me, my conscience is troubled not one iota by calling it the “Anzac Steamer” or the “DOH!”  In fact, I think my conscience is improved when I call the move by fun names that underscore the move’s unseemly, gamey nature.

Indeed I would caution you about being so assertive on naming rights to a move to a game owned by thousands, some of whom likely put this together before you but never said anything.

But hey, in the spirit of A&A camaraderie, I challenge you to a triple a league game on the forum.  If you win, I’l forever call the move whatever you like, including “Karl’s Shame” if you like.  :lol:

Accept?  :evil:

Fight fight fight!

A game must resolve this!

A fight to the death may resolve this grudge, but the world will still call it the Sneaky Karl (my fault). I named it after the first time that I had heard of it. If you have another tricky move that makes your opponent call you everything but a pervert then tell me what it is and I’ll make a video naming it after you, MeinHerr.

Like Karl you will become an immortal and then your death match will become the stuff of legend.

THE GROUND’S ALREADY SHAKING!!

@GeneralHandGrenade:

A fight to the death may resolve this grudge, but the world will still call it the Sneaky Karl (my fault). I named it after the first time that I had heard of it. If you have another tricky move that makes your opponent call you everything but a pervert then tell me what it is and I’ll make a video naming it after you, MeinHerr.

Like Karl you will become an immortal and then your death match will become the stuff of legend.

THE GROUND’S ALREADY SHAKING!!

The Sneaky Herr!!

I love it!

This thread is one big joke and I love it.

GO GET HIM KARL!

Ye can call it wherever you are whatever you want.
But on this forum it will be the

Sneaky Karl!

KILL KILL KILL!!!

I don’t know who first played this move, but I don’t think it matters.

With a name so great it will always be remembered. The sneaky Karl is a wonderful name.

What I think the Allies should do is this: Russia should move their tank and mech from Stalingrad into Sikang, and their fighter and tac bomber from Moscow into Szechwan. The 18 troops and 2 AAA should come together in Amur. The F.E.C. should move their air units into Szechwan, and their land units into Burma. Now, we’ve got a stand-off in Manchuria/Amur. Neither side really wants to attack, since they’re both able to really hurt each other, but the Manchurians can’t go south, because they don’t want to lose Korea or Manchuria. In the south, the FEC can either reconquer Yunnan or reinforce it. After a few turns, Japan will be starved of income, and attention can turn to Europe. Also, because of this early weakening of Japan, the US fleet will be in less danger long-term, since Japan can’t build a huge fleet. This allows the US to start focusing on Europe.

@Karl7:

@MeinHerr:

@Karl7:

Hey MeinHerr, just for fun I checked out your meet up post from November 28, 2014.  Didn’t see the Sneaky Karl/Mahatma Gambit/Anzac Steamer/Gargantua’s Bane being played…  Did I miss it?

I had to correct you…. to just keep the record straight.
So what you choose to call it now, is up to your conscience.

Stop MeinHerr, you are killing me…  :lol: :lol:

Don’t worry about me, my conscience is troubled not one iota by calling it the “Anzac Steamer” or the “DOH!”  In fact, I think my conscience is improved when I call the move by fun names that underscore the move’s unseemly, gamey nature.

Indeed I would caution you about being so assertive on naming rights to a move to a game owned by thousands, some of whom likely put this together before you but never said anything.

But hey, in the spirit of A&A camaraderie, I challenge you to a triple a league game on the forum.  If you win, I’l forever call the move whatever you like, including “Karl’s Shame” if you like.  :lol:

Accept?  :evil:

It’s been 4 days, and not a peep from MeinHerr re: my challenge for the naming right to the Anzac DOW w/UK DD amongst Japanese trns fleet.

I guess he concedes the point.  :|

Good for him to finally see reason and logic!

Long live the Sneaky Karl!

Ahahahahahahah!  :evil:

Nobody messes with the Sneaky Karl!

Everything else is…well

Bah mungus!! :x

VICTORY! LONG LIVE THE SNEAKY KARL!

What a drag.

I was hoping to see some knuckles flying and maybe a chick fight breaking out on the side with gratuitous amounts of hair pulling.

@ShadowHAwk:

Give the guy some time, he might be busy ( or lost his connection or something )

Well… he knows where to find me…  8-)

@Young:

If Japan does not bring America and the Pacific Allies into the war during their second turn, than UK Pacific and ANZAC should always attack Japan during their second turn. Reason being is that America will collect their national objectives at the end of their turn 3 anyways, so the Allies will be essentially sacrificing the “chance” of America being able to attack Japan on their turn 3, in exchange for the certainty of UKP and ANZAC attacking Japan on their turn 2.

The added bonus is the 5 IPCs that UK Pacific will surly collect for their national objective instead of waiting for Japan to take it away from them by attacking Hong Kong first. Also, ANZAC should be in position to collect 10 IPCs in national objectives guaranteed as early as their turn 2 (with a transport to New Guinea of course).

Finally, lets not forget the advantage of surprise when Japan loses units from an aggressive UK and ANZAC because they felt they were safe while being passive. Therefore, UK Pacific and ANZAC should always declare war on Japan turn 2 if Japan has not already declared war on them.

The question whether to do unprovoked or not cannot be answered on the white board it but crucially depends on what UK/ANZ can achieve by the DOW and what sacrifices US has to make to NOT be able to join the war in turn 3.

It seems to me you ignored that fact that US cannot only not attack Japan but will be another turn late to join the action in Europe, too.
Also, don’t underestimate the advantage Japan has when they can bash on UK without fearing a US counter attack.

that does not mean that I am against unprovoked, I regularly did this in the past but my decision is based on whether I can KILL Japanese troops or not. One main reason to DOW on UK2 is to attack the Japanese at yunnan denying them to hold this key territory. Also, you might have the chance to kill Japenese troops at Siam or to to even hit parts of the fleet.

I can always just repeat what I am often saying: I recommend everybody to not do strategic considerations on the white board and come to black/white conclusions but always consider the map and the action that took place until you have to make a decision. A&A is not like chess, where the exact position can be predetermined until a significant amount of moves. The A&A map is ALWAYS different except for G1 in a game without bid :-)

I’d only just discovered these rules like a day before this thread popped up.  My buddy and I started a game on AAA a while ago to prep for our FtF this weekend:

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41587.0

This would seem to be a counterpoint to the UK/ANZAC 2 DoW.  I was doing some goofy stuff in Europe but basically a G4 Sealion is coming.  I’ve got a US Atlantic Navy ready for London Calling which would have moved to sz102 but now there’s an interesting conundrum.

If my buddy does a J3 DoW that lets my US forces retake Gibraltar and to stage my UK fighters and STB there.  If he doesn’t J3 that’s another whole turn where he isn’t taking Money Islands or India (he’s been content to take SFE and China but I suspect an ANZAC crush coming on – he likes to do them).

So not doing the DoW I think I’m in a slightly better position (although still horrible position overall).