A&A Global 1940 Essays: The Pact of Steel: Assisting Italy (Germany)

I disagree with a good chunk of this strategy. There’s a lot of factors here that I think are being forgotten or overlooked.

As others have stated, giving all those territories to Italy doesn’t do a lot of good. Yugoslavia, Southern France, Bulgaria. Those are all much better used for Germany for two reasons. 1) Germany is the one who will ultimately dictate victory or defeat, they can much more effectively utilize that money. 2) The units from Bulgaria/money gained from European territories is not essential to Italian playability. The money they make is still so small, that you wouldn’t be able to ferry all of those units you’ve now activated to North Africa. It would take a few turns just to do that. Not an economical use, in my opinion.

Also, you mention the need to neutralize South Africa. While I understand your point on the UK building a mix of tanks and/or mech’s there, that is largely contingent on what Germany is doing up in Europe. If pressure is being applied, the UK will not be able to afford to divert a large some of money to the South Africa factory. That said, to play devil’s advocate, if the UK isn’t being harassed or threatened in any way, then yes, they can pump three units a turn down there. I think if that happens though, you’ve already lost the ability to “neutralize” it anyways.

I don’t fully agree that the Middle East will be untouched by that point either. If I’m ever the UK, I always immediately sent the infantry in West India west toward the Middle East and North Africa. I don’t divert too much UK Pacific money to this venture, but with the activation of Persia, and maybe a tank sent, that force and an aircraft within range can easily overtake the Iraqi standing army, thus robbing the Axis of that boost if they reach the area. The survivors of this small force, along with anything from South Africa, seem often to then reach/reinforce Cairo around the same time.

For German help, I tend to immediately build a destroyer and transport off of Southern France. I’ll then increase that naval force slowly as the game dictates in other areas. Germany, in my mind, is perfectly set up to attack/hold/reinforce Gibraltar when/if the Axis take it. I usually have the Germans defend there, while the Italians build up a defensive force in Morocco. Again, this is assuming they reach that far before the US comes in. But that’s also why I build a German transport right away. They can assist in getting west in North Africa more quickly, while other Italian forces can marshal strength for an assault on Cairo.

I’ll admit, I don’t do it often, but I fully realize and understand the large benefits of Italy can-opening the USSR as well. It’s a well versed strategy. Even if you don’t commit 100% Italian effort to it, even an initial wave early in Barbarossa can pay huge dividends to Germany for the first couple of turns in the assault.

The Italian NO’s are Italy’s best option to see real money come in. And the Italian NO’s seem to me to be something that have to be moved on quickly. Gibraltar, Southern France, and Greece are the obvious three to take and hold for the one NO, Cairo will be harder. Taking essentially all of North Africa also requires some speed. Land troops along the coast to take them all quickly. This is all assumed that the UK navy has been dealt with after Taranto as well, which it should be. If those can be achieved relatively early, it helps to get the strength needed to assault Cairo. German defense of Gibraltar will help alleviate the strain of Italian resources to help make this happen as well.

All in all, I generally see Italy as an Axis stall tactic. While it’s hard to win the game if Italy has done terribly, it also isn’t essential for Italy to go ham over the Mediterranean/Middle East/Africa to assure victory either. By getting NO’s and staying somewhat aggressive, you make the Allies respond. Every IPC spent by the UK and USA that goes toward the Mediterranean is that much less being focused on Germany as it attempts to smash through to Moscow.

Hi.

Gib/greece/ sth france is easy to get but hard to hold once us is in the game.

Active uk building in sth africa or factories in iraq or somewhere like that will shut down any hope of getting egypt.

Morrocco cant hold against us led invasion around t3 -5.

So for long term i either see italy as guarding france with 5 inf a turn or something or providing can openers and fodder to russian front.

If going for a combined crush on turkey things can get interesting as this can open the door to a lot of ipcs but a hard nut to crack without major diversion of forces.

You nailed it Chris_Henry!

Nuff said. 8-)

@Chris_Henry:

For German help, I tend to immediately build a destroyer and transport off of Southern France. I’ll then increase that naval force slowly as the game dictates in other areas. Germany, in my mind, is perfectly set up to attack/hold/reinforce Gibraltar when/if the Axis take it. I usually have the Germans defend there, while the Italians build up a defensive force in Morocco. Again, this is assuming they reach that far before the US comes in. But that’s also why I build a German transport right away. They can assist in getting west in North Africa more quickly, while other Italian forces can marshal strength for an assault on Cairo.

Gibraltar in Axis hands, will force the US to respond even while still at peace. Axis transports in SZ91 and to some degree even in SZ92, pose a direct threat to America itself and/or to the lightly defended southern parts of Africa. So the US will build a fleet in SZ101 that will at least match whatever the Axis has around Gibraltar, simply because they have to. Once that fleet is there, the obvious thing to do is to add a few transports to it and aim for an amphibious assault. I really can’t see Germany and Italy defending Gibraltar and Morocco against the US.

@Herr:

I really can’t see Germany and Italy defending Gibraltar and Morocco against the US.

I definitely agree Herr KaLeun. That’s largely my point. They won’t be able to hold when the Americans come, not without some favorable things having happened before. My point was it delays US intervention in Europe, which only helps the Germans to hopefully knock on the Soviets and shore up defenses in the West.

@aequitas:

You nailed it Chris_Henry!

Nuff said. 8-)

Haha thanks aequitas! I certainly don’t claim to say this is fool proof, but that’s generally largely how I operate with the Italians/Med/North Africa!

@Chris_Henry:

@Herr:

I really can’t see Germany and Italy defending Gibraltar and Morocco against the US.

I definitely agree Herr KaLeun. That’s largely my point. They won’t be able to hold when the Americans come, not without some favorable things having happened before. My point was it delays US intervention in Europe, which only helps the Germans to hopefully knock on the Soviets and shore up defenses in the West.

Sometimes I don’t mess with Gibraltar for that very reason, I don’t want to attract US ships in the Atlantic when I’d rather be buying max fast movers to make it to Tambov.

In many games agasinst a savvy Russian player the Germans will need the factory in Ukraine to build for their final attack on Moscow. The odds by turn 6 are so close between the German advance and the Russians turtling in Moscow but also threatening a counterstrike that the best Italian can-openener might be Bryansk. If this is true then Italy can delay the 1 mech 1 tank buy until I2 and I1 maybe buy a fighter instead.

@NotEvenJail:

In many games agasinst a savvy Russian player the Germans will need the factory in Ukraine to build for their final attack on Moscow. The odds by turn 6 are so close between the German advance and the Russians turtling in Moscow but also threatening a counterstrike that the best Italian can-openener might be Bryansk. If this is true then Italy can delay the 1 mech 1 tank buy until I2 and I1 maybe buy a fighter instead.

I can’t get Moscow without another factory. I’m still learning this game and only have recently come to prefer Rostov as opposed to W. Germany for a factory build. Get your stack to Tambov (same think as stacking Bryansk), but it’s easier to lay siege to Moscow and surround them. Plus it’s a good position to counter UK incursions from the south. Other benefit of course is that it’s easier to fully secure Stalingrad.

Rostov isn’t that easy to secure if you also need forces to secure Stalingrad. How shop you stop ussr blitzing a tank into Ukraine if you move your main stack to rostov?

W Ukraine is easier but less useful after the fall of Moscow. I’d wonder if you are playing Germany right if you need either? As I’ve learned how to play axis, I’ve relied on such an ic less than I previously did.

@simon33:

Rostov isn’t that easy to secure if you also need forces to secure Stalingrad. How shop you stop ussr blitzing a tank into Ukraine if you move your main stack to rostov?

W Ukraine is easier but less useful after the fall of Moscow. I’d wonder if you are playing Germany right if you need either? As I’ve learned how to play axis, I’ve relied on such an ic less than I previously did.

I’m probably not playing Russia right, I agree there. However, for me, I’ve never got Moscow against experienced Allies’ players who know how to defend Moscow by sending adequate help to delay it WITHOUT another forward factory. I need the forward factories to buy artillery while mech continues to come from further west.

You stop Russia from blitzing to Ukraine with infantry blockers of course as you continue to lay siege to Russia and walk infantry around Moscow.

Simon, everything is situation dictates of course. You’re a better player than me. I’m sure you’ll figure out the marching order and if you try it you’ll come to like it more. It’s a slower process. Germany might have to stop and stack in Bryansk for 1 turn while a mech stack catches up. Then Italy can opens Tambov at which point Germany lands air and stacks Tambov. Mech hit Samara, and whatever is need to hit Stalingrad and Rostov. If you can’t secure Samara (and therefore Stalingrad), then you’re delayed a turn, but will inevitably get to kill more Russian troops. Anways, hopefully the situation on the board permits buying a factory in Rostov the turn after Germany captures it. A forward factory is delayed a few turns, but you buy 3 mech instead that you will need anyways.

Post-Moscow, Germany will need to build a factory on either Rostov or Caucasus anyways. So, you’ll start post Moscow with a 2nd factory in position.

@Herr:

@oysteilo:

@Herr:

Isn’t that a bit slow?

I1: take Bulgaria
I2: units move to Romania
I3: can-opening into Bessarabia and/or Eastern Poland

So in that scenario, the German followup will be as late as G4.

I think the important can-opening happens around (I4), I5, I6 in order to break through into volgograd and caucasus and later to threaten middle east by italy taking NW persia

The idea of can-opening is, to take the territory with Italy in order to allow Germany, and especially the German planes, to reinforce it against a Russian counterstrike. So I don’t think that any Italian drive to the south servers the purpose of can-opening because Russia is unlikely to have sufficient forces to strike back at either Volgograd or the Caucasus anyway in case the Germans would have taken it without Italian assistance. Which doesn’t imply that going that way is bad for Italy because there’s a lot of bonus to be had. But if you’re talking can-opening, then I’d say Bryansk on I5 would be the way to go.

@aequitas:

With Bulgaria, Yugo and Greece given to Italy, what punch will Germany have?
Any Allied player will be happy to harvest Italy…

Agreed. I’d much rather give Bulgaria to Germany to assimilate those troops and add some punch to the German drive into Russia.

I might be using it idfferent than you. The other idea of canopening is to force a russian retreat.
let say you stand in rostov with a german and italian stack, with at least 40 german tank+mech and 5-7 italian units., and 7+ italians. Then ussr has to retreat to moscow. if he stacks byransk, you can take tambov with the italians, and moscow falls on the german turn. Since ussr has to retreat, you get to take cauc, stalingrad and begin taking the middle east immediately.