The J3 India Crush is a standard move that a lot of people do, and have been doing for years. Suppose you are playing as Japan and you are all set up to do a standard issue India Crush (3 transports, all planes in Yunnan, all fleet next to Yunnan yadda yadda…).
There are 2 things you need to make this work:
1) a landing spot
2) clear sea zones from z36 to z39
Now suppose the UK/ANZAC set up as shown in the attached triplea file (all troops stack Burma including China fighter, battleship and cruiser next to Burma, destroyer next to Malaya, some infantry and an ANZAC fighter in Malaya, ANZAC infantry and 2 fighters in Java). Are your 21 planes enough to secure both 1 and 2 above??
I haven’t yet tried this out in an actual game, but I am strongly considering it and I am hoping to get some informed opinion first.
I am NOT asking whether this is a good idea or not, and I am not asking for a bunch of mathematical calculations or other bullshite. What I am asking for is a simple yes/no answer to this question:
If you are Japan and I do this, do you proceed with India Crush or do you abort and do something else, like take some islands or whatever?
YES or NO?
thanks. :-)
please see this map. I made no moves except Japan, UK Pacific, USA, ANZAC.
Complicated topic. The 20 planes on kwangsi are more than sufficient to clear Burma on your map (99%, -20 swing).
One possibility when faced with this deployment is to use your starting transport to get 2 more inf from Malaya to Burma. Japan still has 93%-98% odds, but the average TUV exchange is worse (-30 or -40).
I don’t grasp the point of the airbase. It seems like its purpose is to prevent 1 fighter (in 36) from participating in the Burma strafe. But Japan is not necessarily committed to a J2 Burma and/or J3 India…they could hit the sz with 8 planes and finish off the uk pac fleet. Seems too high a price in order to only prevent 1 plane from participating in the battle.
A potential precautionary measure is to move the starting Russian aircraft within range of Burma on R1…if Germany won’t declare till G3, it won’t make very much difference whether these aircraft are in Kazach or Moscow. If you add these Russian planes to your existing Burma units that reduces Japan’s odds (with all 21 planes) to around 88% with an average -38 swing.
Against this deployment…yes I might proceed with the crush—the units in sz 38 will still be alive but Japan can position its fleet in 37 and 41 to clear the way to get to India.
I am going to assume that your opponent is doing a J2 and not a J1 (otherwise you wouldn’t have the bship).
In both cases the answer is, yes Japan can wreck your stuff and take India on J3. The best part about it, is he doesn’t need an airbase and just a naval base to do so.
Non combat he moves carriers where your bship cruiser is and BAM SLAM he can get 12 air on india with 2 bombers and 6 transport to drop. This is so much better than having to buy an airbase.
~
I did not look at your map. I assume yunnan was attacked on J1 and other standardized moves.
yes it assumes no DOW on J1.
I guess the question is whether Japan has enough planes to both reduce Burma and Malaya so Shan cannot be liberated, and also clear the sea zones so no blockers, and you don’t know whether UK might scramble the 3 british planes. The ANZACs and French are also around to maybe hit z37 or z41 and get a blocker in there. I don’t think there is enough to go around.
Yeah its complicated, thanks for commenting.
I guess the question is whether Japan has enough planes to both reduce Burma and Malaya so Shan cannot be liberated, and also clear the sea zones so no blockers, and you don’t know whether UK might scramble the 3 british planes. The ANZACs and French are also around to maybe hit z37 or z41 and get a blocker in there.
The catch is that Japan can clear 37 and get units into 41 before the french or anzac can make it there. Maybe a better strat is to split up the bb and cruiser (1 in 37, 1 in 41) so that Japan would need to divert planes in order to clear those sea zones. But with the map as is they could send their 20 planes to crush Burma and then ncm naval units into 41.
Right. ANZAC and France are 1 turn too slow. Even if z37 ro z41 cold be cleared by Russia/UK/ANZAC it won’t stop Japan going in by 41.
Oh well. It was an idea. :-P
You do not need to buy an airbase as Japan! Naval base is fine. 3 carrier = 12 planes attack and 2 bomber (6 from carrier move 2 to hit india then 2 to land shan state while other planes move 3 to land to hit india and land on carrier)!!!
Whenever there is a burma stack, it is a money saver for Japan, because Japan just need to slam that and doesn’t need an airbase! Just make sure to move carriers non combat below burma.
Or couldn’t Japan skip on the Naval base by just building 2 bombers instead of transports on turn 1? Air losses would be heavier with just the 3 transports but 2 more bombers would help. You would be spending $24 for 2 bombers instead of $21 for 3 transports, plus $15 for the naval base, plus 6 ground units.
Noononono!
Always buy transports j1! Why? There is no opportunity to buy them later usually. Usually Japan sz is not something you can defend while attacking cash money islands. Get them now. Also 6 man power is stronger than 2 bomber. Also there is no way to predict a burma stack by enemy… also yeah like I said 6 power is better!
I’m not very good at this game…I have difficulty getting India on J4; but my usual best is J5.
I’m still looking forward to seeing a J3 India crush. I have a super difficult time making Japan Great Again.
I am with you Ichabod. I find Japan the most difficult to play. The India Crush is just a script so doing it is just a matter of practice. What I am looking for is a way fr the allies to crack it so that it doesn’t work all the time. I haven’t found a solution yet but there has to be one……
You can have somewhere close to 20 men and at least 6 planes on J4.
The conventional wisdom would be to stay on your factory so more units are always together–stepping up and spreading out means he doesnt need a sea base to hit you.
Did Japan build the sea base on yunnan/hainan/fic J1-2? if he does he can reach India in one turn and the only square you can screen or block is SZ 37–otherwise he has 2 ways through.
Does he control Burma? if he cant land his planes on Burma only carrier capacity can come. This is why Japan may also want an airbase, but having both is a big investment.
If Japan is coming directly at India, that means a couple of things; the push on Russia, China, and Anzac will be weaker and the US doesn’t have to worry about the whole japan fleet for 2-3 turns. Japan may try to KIF (Kill India First) because it is the most strategic move–the factory lets him help Germany kill Russia and UK. This means less Japan money and the JDOW J1 focuses on getting all of UKPACs income, not killing it quickly, necessarily…
Id say usually go full turtle and max infantry. No china interventions, nothing fancy, just get a ton of stuff on india. Air can fly in from all over, moscow, africa, med, since moscow isnt on the ropes yet. He cant attack you on J2 if you leave the DD in SZ37. He can simply just move his whole fleet into or past yours, at peace, there is nothing you can do about it. Still, his planes can only reach so far and they’ll need a spot to land–Ceylon is the best choice then Burma and he should grab it. Once your UK fleet is dealt with, India is going down–everything can flee or you can have departed early, this is like the rebels on Hoth. Live to fight another day, the fighters head towards moscow. He can still only bring 6 ground units plus what walks through burma–and you can attack any of that with your UK air to help. 1 ship can block all his bombardments. In some cases you just leave a stack there to die (or die in west india) but that’s still important because it wastes a japan turn with transport use to kill it, a turn that otherwise would be spent securing the money or asia/africa. If Japan can be held off until J 4-5 (or fails entirely) then you can consider it a kind of stalemate, where you wasted Japan’s time. The decision of whether to make a stand or not all depends on whether Japan is set up to bring everything, its different game by game. If the USA is KJFing or bombing japan or taking over SZ 6 Japan cannot screw around they have to move every thing back the other direction (mustering at SZ 36) as soon as they can.
Its not so bad to build up a Red Sea UK navy with (2TT 1-2CV 1BB 1CA 1DD) all stuff you can build or scavenge up on UK1-4. Then, when this happens, if the UK has a bunch of stuff in the middle and near east, Japan has to keep fighting/chasing those guys and cant just turn around and obliterate russia or anzac.
Having both an airbase and a naval base there is a big investment, but it is also a solid one. Not only is it good for taking out Calcutta, it is also in a strategic location. After you dispatch India you can turn your sights on the money islands and Australia. Having both bases will help reach and keep control of both. Unlike the bases on the Philippines, you are situated on the mainland where you can continue to bend China over while you launch your transports from there. If you can manage to control SZ 6 you can do a transport shuck and save money on purchasing multiple minor IC’s on the mainland. One IC on FIC after Calcutta is sacked and you’re golden. As long as Germany is kicking butt in Europe they will draw some of the US money away from you. If the US comes after you with everything then Germany wins.
During on of my games the UK player moved 10 inf and some planes from India to Burma. I found that this put Japan in a difficult position. They could take India, but would not be able to hold it. this would mean having lost ground forces and needing to get new troops via transports. This takes a lot of time.
I am with you Ichabod. I find Japan the most difficult to play. The India Crush is just a script so doing it is just a matter of practice. What I am looking for is a way fr the allies to crack it so that it doesn’t work all the time. I haven’t found a solution yet but there has to be one……
I know in your current game with Sovietschat you’re succeeding with the India Crush….haha (he told me). I taught him with a Sea Lion game to keep UK Europe honest. Maybe he’ll start keeping UK Pacific honest now!
What about using the 20 Russian Siberians aggressively? The India Crush requires almost every plane in position to strafe Burma or something like that; so losing Manchuria/Korea for several turns (loss of 6 IPCs per turn), might help. Obviously India has to turtle which then hurts China. If your cautious about those 20 units, then even just putting them in a threatening position could divert enough planes?
Putting the 20 far east units is one way to bait japan into attacking that and hopefully they get out of position to strike burma. No guarantee though; they could just stack manchuria with ground troops and ignore it. Russia may miss having those troops in moscow later
During on of my games the UK player moved 10 inf and some planes from India to Burma. I found that this put Japan in a difficult position. They could take India, but would not be able to hold it. this would mean having lost ground forces and needing to get new troops via transports. This takes a lot of time.
That’s an interesting move. I can see how it would help; troops in India would be cut off. Russia did that to Napoleon too.
I’m confused about the purpose of the Burma airbase for the allies though. It can just be bypassed via SZ41. Better to put down a blocker in SZ37. In one game I put an airbase on Shan State as Allies to defend a fleet in SZ37. Did have some effect - I guess most of the IJN must have been tied down in SZ6.
yeah I think we resolved that the airbase thing is a bad idea.
I still think it’s a good idea. You can use it for the rest of the game too, not just taking down India.
