Adding value to naval bases

….and here are mine suggestions…

Ships in a seazone with a friendly Port are protected by a minefield. Use the A&A 1914 OOB rules.

…or the Port is protected by a coastal gun in a casemate or blockhouse, that roll a 3 or less in defense when enemy ships sails into that seazone. Obviously a damaged Port don’t have any operating guns or mines. Sure gives you a reason to bomb it before your amphibious assault.

…or, since an Airbase obviously got Transport Aircrafts that can shuttle 2 paratroopers away, lets say a Port have Landing Crafts that can combat move 2 Marines over one seazone and into enemy territory. Like if UK got a Port, they can combat move 2 Marines into Normandy.

…or, and this is my favorite, a Tranny at Port can bridge 4 units over one seazone in non combat move. Lets say UK got a Port, and Normandy is friendly, then a UK or Us Tranny in the English Channel can bridge 4 units from UK to Normandy during non combat phase. This makes sense to me.

Hello YG,

I have also been thinking about naval bases.  My ideas are not fully thought-out.  But here are a couple from the brainstorm.

Naval Bases have ONE purpose:  EXTEND THE RANGE OF YOUR FLEETS, period.  This needs to be modeled better in A&A.   Historically, naval bases were needed to not only repair ships during their operations, but to also provide a safe harbor and to offer a re-fitting/re-fueling area.  And, most importantly, they should work as a staging platform to allow deeper attacks and operations.  So with this in mind it might be neat to do the following:

• A surface ship may not go more than THREE turns without ending movement in sea-zone with a friendly operational Naval Base (Operational means that it must have 2 or less damage markers on it).  Therefore, a ship must return to a Navy-Base sea zone on their third turn out or less.  Failure to do so results in the ship’s movement being reduced to 1 until it reaches an operational navy base.  A different colored chip stack may be used to indicate movement turns … One chip stack can be used per fleet.  Multiple chip stacks will be used if some ships have joined the fleet on a different turn.  A turn with movement ending in a sea-zone with a friendly operational Naval Base returns the Movement Chip Stack back to zero.  This rule applies to SURFACE SHIPS ONLY, subs can go indefinitely.
• Operational Naval Bases have Coastal Guns.  They provide an additional Defense roll that hits attacking SHIPS ONLY @3 or less in the sea zone(s) that border the Navy Base.   Also, this could be interpreted as the Navy Base having short-range torpedo boats as most Naval Combat would be conducted far outside the range of coastal guns … coastal guns were much more of a deterant than a weapon used in Naval Battles.  Operational means that it has 2 or less damage markers.  Therefore, once the Naval Base has 3 hits, it is KO’d.  Defender can decide how to apply the hits as per normal combat.
• Naval Bases have built-in AAA that can target up to one attacking plane.  (works the same as the built-in AAA on ships per Modified Naval Combat House Rules)
• Amphibious Assaults on Territories with a Naval Base  Naval bases must be KO’d (3 damage markers) before the land portion of an amphibious assault can begin.  Naval bases with no accompanying sea units must still be KO’d before the land portion of an amphibious assault can begin.  Each land territory is limited to a maximum of one Naval Base per territory.  This makes Naval Bases also work as Costal Defenses … so they are kind of a 2 in 1 type of unit.

Analysis
This will give fleets a “range”.  It will also create the need for countries to gain control of strategic territories specifically for making Naval Bases in order to extend the range of their fleets.   ALL of this is historically accurate.  This is why the United States had Hawaii, Wake and the Philippines.  This is also why Japan had the Carolinia Islands and tried so hard to gain control of the areas around New Guinea.  It is also why the UK had a chain of bases extending between Hong Kong all the way back to London, both via the Suez Canal and around South Africa.

Hi YG,

I’m thinking about literally placing the Naval Base on the Battle Board.  It would work as an actual unit.   The base not only represents Costal Guns.  It also represents mines, torpedo boats and all of the other support and defensive equipment that would accompany a Naval Base.

All of this would be represented as the Naval Base hitting with a roll of 3 or less.

Therefore, with an amphibious assault, the Naval Base must be KO’d in the regular Naval Portion of the Amphibious Assault combat … just like any other defending ship in the sea zone.

Naval Bases stay operational with 2 hits or less.  They are KO’d once they have 3 hit markers.

<edit>If a Tactical Bombing Raid is conducted on a Naval Base that is in a territory that will also be in an amphibious assault on that same turn, the TBR is conducted first, damage markers are applied to the Naval Base, then the Amphibious assault is conducted.</edit>

Now, if I had to play by those House Rules I would have been slightly disturbed if a Port unit was put on the Battleboard and fired in every round. Not even AA guns fire in every round, and I know there are attacking aircrafts in every round. After the first round, all coastal guns and blockhouses should have been by passed. Or do you claim that the German Coastal Guns in Normandy still fired at Allied units in St. Vith or Falaise after 3 months of combat ?

I think, IMHO, that rules for facilities like Ports and Airbases, should be as streamlined as possible, to keep the rules simple and playable. Not every casual player you meet is a history buff or have served 5 years in the military. They are not even skilled or brilliant, but play just for fun, or the love of plastic miniatures.

All facilities got inherent AA guns that roll preemptive against aircrafts. Lets keep it that way.

Most major Naval Bases also had close area protection, like sea mines, torpedo boats and coastal guns. This was true to Pearl Harbor, Taranto, Corregidor, Singapore, Sevastopol, Gallippolly, and all ports in Normandy, like Cherbourg, Le Havre, Dieppe and so on. And this is the reason the attackers used waves of air strikes before they launched the amphibious attack. An operational Naval Base should have a strong defense, maybe preemptive since its hard to stay fighting after your ship is hit by a mine or torpedo. But of course there are just so many mines, torpedoes and shells.

So my suggestion is, a Naval Base can roll preemptive up to 3 dice, with 2 or less as hit, against invading land units. Against 1 infantry, the NB roll one dice. Against 3 infantry, the NB roll 3 dice. Against a stack of 20 land units, the NB still roll 3 dice. And the NB should not need a friendly infantry to do this, like YG suggest, because the coastal guns, AA guns, barbed wire, minefields and blockhouses are operated by a garrison that comes with the NB, and not by some visiting Panzer Division that happened to be in the area.

I don’t know how much the NB can participate in a navel battle. Before an invasion, the naval battle usually take place far away from the range of coastal guns and torpedo boats. But some times the fleet is at port, like in Pearl Harbor and Taranto, protected by the facilities coastal guns, minefields and torpedo boats. That why the attacker used air strikes in that cases.

@the_jetset:

 Naval bases must be KO’d (3 damage markers) before the land portion of an amphibious assault can begin.  Naval bases with no accompanying sea units must still be KO’d before the land portion of an amphibious assault can begin.

I strongly disagree on this. It was actually very rare that the Port was knocked out before the invasion started. But, in the cases where the Port was knocked out, the attackers could walk ashore as if they were on holiday. But attacking against undamaged Ports, and you got lots of casualties. My point is, its the Players choice to attack or not, not the Rules. In the real world, the Generals don’t have any Rulebooks that says its not allowed to attack unless this or that is done. They attack anyway.

Look at the Dieppe Raid, there were no preemptive shore bombardment nor Air Strikes, just a suicidal charge by Canadian infantry supported by some Churchill Tanks, and they all died. With your rules, the Dieppe Raid was illegal and not allowed to do.

With your rules, even the Normandy landings would have been an illegal move, since the shore bombardment and aircrafts bombing were not able to knock out the German Blockhouses before the amphibious assault started. Omaha beach talk by itself.

And I could go on and on.

@the_jetset:

Naval Bases have ONE purpose:  EXTEND THE RANGE OF YOUR FLEETS, period.

•  A surface ship may not go more than THREE turns without ending movement in sea-zone with a friendly operational Naval Base

This is historical correct and I partly agree, but…… it looks like a pain to keep track of.

Also, since an A&A game turn is supposed to be between 3 and 6 months, the ships should only be allowed to go from Port to Port, and not stop at the middle of an ocean, and this will of course ruin the game as we know it.

My suggestion is, an operational Port boost your move 1 space, both in combat move and non combat move. This is OOB.

Also, if you are headed to a friendly operational Port in non combat move, that arrival Port should boost you 1 extra move too.

Ships move 2 only, when sailing from here to there.

But, you can sail 4 spaces in non combat between 2 operational Ports. I think that makes sense and are playable too

Naval Bases :  2@1 AA shots at planes.  !st round only.
                    2@1 AA shots at ships.  1st round only.

Defender chooses one or the other only.

2@1 against any ground troops for 1st round only.

Defender has to have at least 1 inf with naval base.

Hello Narvik and YG,

@Naval Bases Firing: These are all great points that both Narvik and YG made.  In my first post I was just floating some balloons regarding this.  Looking at the posts, as both of you suggested, I would propose that a NB can have UP TO 3x@1 hits that are preemptive.  One dice is removed with each damage marker that the NB has before combat begins as a result of bombing raids.  Narvik, I am thinking of Naval Bases as somewhat abstracted.  They not only represent the port, but they also include a general array of coastal defensive measures like you mentioned.  Therefore, as in history, it would be in the interest of the attacker to use a series of bombing raids against Coastal Fortifications (represented by a Naval Base) before the amphibious assault part of the invasion begins. …. What do you think?  Up to 3 x @1?   …  and each damage marker from bombings would remove 1 dice.

**@Naval Bases and Fleets:  ** YG.  I am going to make my case again for having the bases go hand-in-hand with the fleets.  In the OOB rules, a Naval Base gives a bonus to ship movement.  But it is just kind of a nice bonus … it really doesn’t have too much strategic significance.  Lets face it, either the Japanese or the US forces could come to dominate the Pacific without really paying too much attention to who has what Naval Base and where.  … They are just kind of there to repair the occasional BB or CV.   Nice … but not necessary.

By having Fleets reduce their movement to ONE SPACE after their 3rd turn away from a Naval Base, you suddenly make Naval Bases IMPORTANT.  Please take a moment and look at your G40 map.  Look now at the Carolina Islands.  Japan NEEDS that Naval Base!  Also, if Japan wants to hit Australia, they NEED to put a Naval Base in New Guinea.  … The same now works in reverse.  USA must take the Naval Base in the Carolina Islands and use it as a spring-board for both keeping Australia in the game and hitting Japan where it hurts in the money-islands.

On the Atlantic side … look how important Gibraltar suddenly is!!  That Naval Base is integral for launching any kind of a significant operation into North Africa.

This is a game-changer!!  This adds an entire new strategic layer to the game and enhances historical reality.

It would be pretty easy to keep track of.  It would just use a different color chip, (maybe Pink … or even the OOB Green ones if you just use the Grey and Red for unit stacks).  Or, a specific color dice could also be used.

After the None-Combat Moves, maybe during the Convoy Raiding Step.  … Just place a chip in each sea-zone where you have a ship(s) not adjacent to a NB.

Then, in your next turn, all ships with a stack of 3 chips can only move 1 space.  Once the stack hits 3 chips, it is no longer necessary to add more.

Another Balloon to float.   Maybe the rule should read:  At the start of each turn, all surface ships must return to within 3 spaces away from a friendly operable NB??  This would be at the START of each turn.  Therefore, if a ship is more than 3 spaces away at the beginning, they must return to the NB range.   If the ship is within base range at the beginning of the turn, they can move out of range and strike ….  They will have to move back into range at the beginning of their next turn though.

This gives historical added value to the Naval Bases and makes them strategically important.   It also does not add complications to gameplay.

Well … It should be a tough nut to crack!  :-D

If 1 to 3 planes scramble then the Naval Base doesn’t get any AA shots.

I like that YG.  I would just consider adding the text “up to” in front of the 3@1.  This way, attacker can opt to soften up the defenses with bombing raids.  Each damage marker removes 1 dice.

Also, as for the real reason for even having Naval Bases.  What do you think about the revised range idea?  If a surface ship starts their turn more than three spaces away from a friendly operable NB, it must move within range of one.  ….  This allows Strikes of up to five spaces away and substainded operations within three spaces away.  … Bases now embark operating range to fleets.