I’m playing an opponent who is preventing Vichy from occurring by having the UK attack Italy’s destroyer and transport in SZ96 from SZ98 with a destroyer, cruiser, tactical from aircraft carrier in SZ98 and a fighter from Malta. Italy’s destroyer is sunk (and transport). Then in the Non-Combat phase, UK loads the transport in SZ98 and lands UK troops in Southern France. Since France is still an ally at this point, this is legal and effectively prevents Vichy mode, since Germany will now have to take Southern France on its next turn. There isn’t any way to prevent this as far as I can tell.
G40 Balance Mod - Feedback Thread
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There a few things I hate about Balanced Mod, all to do with Amphibious Assaults.
- Why on earth should you be able to assault from a Cruiser or Battleship? None of those ships would carry the assault boats needed. Indeed, even boarding or alighting as an NCM away from a naval base is dubious
- Why should Marines get to attack on a 2? The combined arms artillery bonus is pretty silly too in an amphibious assault. It doesn’t really reflect the real world IMO.
Just thought I’d give that feedback. Maybe I’m wrong.
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Who would buy a marine thar attacked at 1?
And it’s all abstracted. Their boats come with the 5 ipc cost.
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There a few things I hate about Balanced Mod, all to do with Amphibious Assaults.
- Why on earth should you be able to assault from a Cruiser or Battleship? None of those ships would carry the assault boats needed. Indeed, even boarding or alighting as an NCM away from a naval base is dubious
- Why should Marines get to attack on a 2? The combined arms artillery bonus is pretty silly too in an amphibious assault. It doesn’t really reflect the real world IMO.
Just thought I’d give that feedback. Maybe I’m wrong.
Simon, there is significant historical precedent for warships carrying detachments of marines into combat. For starters, virtually all US battleships, during World War II, carried marine detachments (between 50 and 100 men), who, in addition to manning ship guns, served as ship expeditionary forces. See, e.g., http://seastories.battleshipnc.com/marines/
Smaller warships also carried marines. For example, it was a group of ship-borne Royal Marines that proved decisive in the Battle for Madagascar. From the relevant wikipedia article:
“The French defence was highly effective in the beginning and the main Allied force was brought to a halt by the morning of 6 May. The deadlock was broken when the old destroyer HMS Anthony dashed straight past the harbour defences of Diego Suarez and landed 50 Royal Marines amidst the Vichy rear area. The Marines created “disturbance in the town out of all proportion to their numbers” and the Vichy defence was soon broken.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Madagascar
Also noteworthy, the Japanese’ made extensive use of cruisers, destroyers, and even battleships as troop transports throughout the war. A few examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Kitakami
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Kirishima
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_destroyer_HayanamiSo, yah, the idea of cruisers and battleships transporting small land forces is not only fun and good for the game, its historically accurate! HF!
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The Tokyo Express also really comes in handy in the Pacific. It’s annoying enough to go out island collecting, if you can send a cruiser with a marine on it instead of a cruiser and a transport it helps speed game play up a bit as well. (Thinking Marshals, Jonah, Guam, Midway, Formosa, etcetera…islands you may want to collect but don’t want to dedicate a fleet to getting and are probably un, or under, defended)
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Interesting points - note a couple of things:
- The Kitakami lost 40% of its torpedo tubes to fit in 2 assault boats
- The first link notes that the Marines transferred to a transport when they were planned to assault a beach
- I’d have thought an infantry represents significantly more than 100 troops.
But if you reckon it’s more fun that way, might give it a go.
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But if you reckon it’s more fun that way, might give it a go.
haha. so you haven’t even tried the mod yet. . . :roll:
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What’s with the eye roll? Aren’t I allowed to comment on it before trying?
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What’s with the eye roll? Aren’t I allowed to comment on it before trying?
my response:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfr9gMbjPco -
I can’t STAND Thai food!
No, I’ve never eaten it, why do you ask?
:-P
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@Shin:
Who would buy a marine thar attacked at 1?
And it’s all abstracted. Their boats come with the 5 ipc cost.
Fair enough but I still feel that they’re overpowered. Maybe 1/1/1 and 3IPC cost with no bonuses? They’re supposed to represent a small detachment of troops.
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If they are that cheap, there’s no reason to buy Inf unless you’re going to pair them with Art.
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He said 1/1/1, so regular infantry would be much stronger on defense than his proposed marines, in addition to the no pairing with artillery, so stronger on offense many times too
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oh, d’oh! My mistake.
Huh. I suppose that could work, actually.
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Has BM2.0 fixed the SBR AAA and stopped you from choosing the tacs?
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Hmm, that’s weird. I just did an SBR with 3 Tacs + SB and it auto selected the 2 of the tacs. Didn’t ask me which ones either.
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@Shin:
If they are that cheap, there’s no reason to buy Inf unless you’re going to pair them with Art.
That is a valid criticism - so long as you are using them on the attack.
Would it be better to just have 4IPC cost and no amphibious assault bonus? I also don’t like them counting towards the number of ships able to bombard - perhaps the bombardment should be weaker one point weaker and also reduce the Marine’s attack to zero on the first round if a marine is supporting the bombardment?
If you did that, I reckon they’d be about as perfect a unit as I could dream up.
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I’ve got a few games of this going, and I’d have to say I’m finding that it makes a lot of previously dynamic decisions automatic. Some of them:
- Concentrate G1 attack on France or diversify to claim more territory. I reckon this is now automatically a claim Normandy but not Sth France
- USSR DOW on Japan. Now out to claim a bonus.
- USSR Eastern forces defend the east or run back to Moscow? Now automatically run back to Moscow
- Japan DOW on USSR. This one now swings a bit more I guess. Gives some money to USSR but also takes some away. Not really enough to be worthwhile until the dying stages of Moscow’s stand though.
I’m sure there’s more but I can’t think of them OTOH.
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- Concentrate G1 attack on France or diversify to claim more territory. I reckon this is now automatically a claim Normandy but not Sth France
I am still not convinced that in a game of same skilled players the Vichy couldn’t backfire in the long run for the Axis. In my first games I activated it on purpose to see where this leads to, however I will also try to not activate Vichy to evaluate the long term economic advantage Vichy brings for the Allies
- USSR DOW on Japan. Now out to claim a bonus.
I am not convinced yet. Especially as Germans now often delay DOW on Russia. Russian DOW does not change anything in the first place except that Japan then can neglect the Eastern NO without doubling the Persia NO. Still, sacrificing 2 IPC per turn for Russia can be worth it if this means China gets even more nasty for Japan
- USSR Eastern forces defend the east or run back to Moscow? Now automatically run back to Moscow
Not at all! I do not see any reason to retreat those units. According to my experience I consider it almost always bad to send these guys home.
- Japan can easily claim 3 Russian IPC without activating Mongolia
- Japan has no pressure on Manchuria and Korea and can easily smash Chinese and later India
I believe those 12/2 army comes too late into play to compensate for the disadvantage their absence means for the Allies in China.
And in case Japan leaves Manchuria and Korea unguarded I do not hesitate to declare war against Japan with Russia.
- Japan DOW on USSR. This one now swings a bit more I guess. Gives some money to USSR but also takes some away. Not really enough to be worthwhile until the dying stages of Moscow’s stand though.
Yes, the DOW is now a bit more expensive. However its also just 2 IPC in general. If Japan DOW they will occupy Amur and the archangel NO can be stopped in most cases anyway. So 2 more IPC from Persia but Japan often easily eats 4 IPC quickly from Russia. So still a very valid option for Japan, especially if Allies focus in Germany early.
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^ I’ll take your comment under advisement on the Soviet Eastern troops, but I’m pretty sure that in all of the half dozen BM games I have going where I am axis, the other player has chosen to run those troops home and I’ve chosen not to DOW on them to prevent USSR from getting the bonus. Perhaps a mistake on my part.
A couple of other points:
- I think the China guerilla rule is a bit generous in that it gives a free inf. Perhaps just automatically convert the territory to China owned if it’s unoccupied? The problem is when there is an air unit. Perhaps stick with the current system in that case - the chance it survives is low anyway unless that unit is a strat bomber.
Does the engine not allow enemy troops to be in a land territory owned by the opposite side like it does dfor sea zones? Is that the reason for British units in Sth France blocking Vichy?
Others have also made the same comments about Vichy but I will be surprised if it isn’t activated every game by the Axis when people are more familiar with BM.
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