Global 2nd edition Q+A ( AAG40.2)

I have another question about neutrals and scrambling.

Suppose Persia is neutral.  Japanese troops successfully invade Eastern Persia.  Japan also declares war on Persia and announces it will make an amphibious landing there after clearing a British fleet in z80.  However the attack on z80 fails and no Japanese units actually make landfall on Persia.  Can allied planes now attack the Japanese troops in Eastern Persia and land in Persia?

@variance:

I have another question about neutrals and scrambling.

Suppose Persia is neutral.  Japanese troops successfully invade Eastern Persia.  Japan also declares war on Persia and announces it will make an amphibious landing there after clearing a British fleet in z80.

You don’t declare war on a neutral territory - there is no such thing.  You just attack them.

However the attack on z80 fails and no Japanese units actually make landfall on Persia.  Can allied planes now attack the Japanese troops in Eastern Persia and land in Persia?

No, allied planes can’t land in Persia because Persia is still neutral.  It was never attacked.  Planes can land in Persia after this because an attack was declared on Persia by Japan (the ground units would have been placed on Persia during the combat movement phase to show the intent of amphibiously assaulting pending the naval battle) As far as whether allied planes can attack Japanese units in East Persia - as long as the Ally is at war with Japan, sure.  They would have to declare war first if they are not already at war with Japan.

Persia is no longer neutral because an amphibious assault attack was declared against it (see the ruling on the previous page), so Allied planes could land there.  Everything else Gamerman said is correct.

Thanks again gamerman and krieghund.  I think i have my head around neutrals now  :-)

@Krieghund:

Persia is no longer neutral because an amphibious assault attack was declared against it (see the ruling on the previous page), so Allied planes could land there.  Everything else Gamerman said is correct.

Yeah, Panther caught it for me and sent me a PM and you corrected me before I could correct myself  :-)

That ruling still hasn’t registered with me… Hope I get used to the idea before it affects me in a game  :-)

Russian units in Suiyan are attacked by Japan.

Suiyan Borders Mongolia.

Does this activate Mongolia?  Or is Mongolia only affected when Russian troops attack Japanese territories bordering Mongolia?

Mongolia is not activated because Suiyan is not a Russian controlled territory.

If Russia attacks a Japanese controlled Chinese territory bordering Mongolia, then Mongolia will become strictly neutral.

@Gargantua:

Russian units in Suiyan are attacked by Japan.

Suiyan Borders Mongolia.

Does this activate Mongolia?  Or is Mongolia only affected when Russian troops attack Japanese territories bordering Mongolia?

You need to read the Mongolia rules on page 39 of the rulebook.

Doesn’t matter that Russian units are attacked by Japan - it must be a Russian-controlled territory that is attacked by Japan that prevents Mongolia from ever allying with the Soviet Union the rest of the game.  Since Chinese territories can never be controlled by the Soviet Union, Japan can always attack any of the Chinese territories bordering Mongolia without affecting Mongolia - no matter if there are Russian units in them.

Same with Russia attacking Japan - the rulebook says Japan-controlled territories bordering Mongolia, or Korea.  So Russia can attack Japanese units in China without affecting Mongolia as well.

@Gamerman01:

@Gargantua:

Russian units in Suiyan are attacked by Japan.

Suiyan Borders Mongolia.

Does this activate Mongolia?  Or is Mongolia only affected when Russian troops attack Japanese territories bordering Mongolia?

You need to read the Mongolia rules on page 39 of the rulebook.

Doesn’t matter that Russian units are attacked by Japan - it must be a Russian-controlled territory that is attacked by Japan that prevents Mongolia from ever allying with the Soviet Union the rest of the game. Since Chinese territories can never be controlled by the Soviet Union, Japan can always attack any of the Chinese territories bordering Mongolia without affecting Mongolia - no matter if there are Russian units in them.

I think you mean immediately activating Mongolia here.

@Gamerman01:

Same with Russia attacking Japan - the rulebook says Japan-controlled territories bordering Mongolia, or Korea.  So Russia can attack Japanese units in China without affecting Mongolia as well.

Just to clarify, Russia can freely attack Japanese units in internal China, but not the Chinese territories adjacent to Mongolia or Korea, unless somehow Germany or Italy captured them first.

ColonelCarter, I understand that you are trying to help, but

You’re wrong, I did not mean “immediately activating Mongolia” - I meant what I said.  This language of “allying with the Soviet Union” is straight from page 39 of the rule book, word for word.

I think you were right to try and clarify my statement about Russia attacking Japanese units in China, but you actually didn’t clarify, you made it worse.  However, you did succeed in bringing it to my attention - I will clarify it now.

Regarding Chinese territories bordering Mongolia -

Russia can’t attack Japanese units in Chinese territories bordering Mongolia without consequence, because these Japanese units would normally be in Japanese controlled territories.  However, as you pointed out, if you actually had the strange situation where Germany or Italy controlled the Chinese territory that borders a still strict neutral Mongolia, Russia could attack that territory which could even have Japanese units in it without consequence because it is not Japanese controlled.

It’s just what the rulebook says: Russia can’t attack Korea or any Japanese controlled territory that borders Mongolia without consequence - that is, if Russia does attack Korea or a Japanese controlled territory bordering Mongolia before Japan has invaded a Russian controlled territory bordering Mongolia, then Mongolia will remain neutral and not ally itself with the Soviet Union (for the rest of the game, which is clear if you read the sentence that comes before this)

Some time ago I posted a summary of Mongolia and Neutrals rules - perhaps you or someone else may find them helpful:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30776.15

Alright, your clarification is much more clear.

But for the first part, your statement is contradictory.
@Gamerman01:

it must be a Russian-controlled territory that is attacked by Japan that prevents Mongolia from ever allying with the Soviet Union the rest of the game.

Either you mean “causes Mongolia to be placed under control of the Soviet Union” using rulebook terminology for the second part (my assumption), or you mean “a Japanese-controlled territory that is attacked by Russia” for the first part (possibly what you thought you wrote).

Great, now we’re getting somewhere -

It’s so confusing sometimes.  I think I know how to respond to your latest post, after thinking about it again.

I believe I was correct in saying Russian-controlled territory attacked by Japan prevents Mongolia from allying with the Soviet Union.

If Japan jumps the gun and attacks, say, Amur before Russia has violated “the pact”, then Mongolia will never join Russia in the manner described on page 39 (standing army units placed on the board using Soviet pieces and Soviet control markers placed on Mongolia).

The last sentence on page 39 uses the language of “Mongolia will remain neutral and not ally itself with the Soviet Union” which is why I used it too.  Others may call this “activation” of Mongolia - it is the same concept.  We are talking about the same thing.

Hello we discuss what happend(fire) first:

It is an amphibian assault on england with Battleship and fighters too. Who fire First ?

The Battleship because offshore bombordament is befor land comabt, or the AAA on the Fighter, because it is before “First round of combat” ?

Hi surfnrat,

It doesn’t matter which one fires first, between a bombarding battleship and a defending AAA against attacking fighters.  They both need to be rolled.  The battleship and the AAA should be rolled before the attack roll, that’s what matters.

I think I know this answer but just want to be sure.  If able to you have to place all purchased units at the end of your turn.  Correct?

That’s right, Majikforce.

Yes, and I can assure you that has been confirmed on this FAQ before, by Krieghund.

Does Russian units in China negate the Mongolian rule? URGENT!

@Young:

Does Russian units in China negate the Mongolian rule? URGENT!

if russian units attack a japanese controlled territory bordering mongolia, then the mongolian pact is canceled.  if japan attacks a chinese territory with russian units in it, the mongolians do not join russia.  they only join russia if the pact is still active and japan attacks a russian CONTROLLED territory bordering mongolia.  that means the territory must be red.

That’s correct.  And since it’s impossible for Chinese territories to ever be Russian controlled, the only time Mongolia will turn Russian is if Japan attacks a Russian controlled territory bordering Mongolia.