@panther I did not know this, thank you
The Japan Playbook
-
Hey cow, what if USA goes europe for the first 2-3 rounds for its buys, then goes pacific after to prevent honolulu and sydney from going under? What would you do differently as japan (or the axis in general) to combat this? The this is with the Uk not scambling G1, goes 97, and ethe crush with india tranny (builds carriers /trannys in 106 with figs in england). I was basically in a debate with my friend where he thinks this is the best way to handle J1 DoW, basically saying that right after the J4 india crush, US can quickly make up for lost ground in the pac to stonewall japan for a long time untill germ/italy have been sufficiently neutered so that russia and UK europe can help wear down japan. They say J1 DoW breaks the game and makes europe rediculously easy for the allies.
-
Basically, in a 3v2, I employed a J1 attack but i never took calcutta, US was 100% pacific untill like round 5 or 6, even then, he was maybe 70% pacific and rest atlantic. We had some rough spots with dice against the UK fleet and with italy (italy tried africa play after a 97/ethe super crush) while germany focues hard on russia with inf/mech and a butt load of tanks (we had like over 30 in range of moscow by game’s end). Germany’s air based in sita and wger kept the Uk fleet at bay in gib/red sea/109/106 untill UK got at least 3 carrier loads of planes.
They never tried to bring their fleet into the med, but the did a good job at holding the mid east and africa to cut down italy’s NO’s.
With the constant threat of a giant counter attack ( kept liek 70% if my navy in phil and adaquate air in japan/kwangsi airbase), I forced the US to sit in hawaii untill his 4th turn, where he moved to caroline, sat for a turn, then sent his entire fleet to 36 (I missed calc and did not bock), I got horrid dice, but the US decided to retreat to phil, but he made the grave mistake of damaging his carriers which cause liek 6 of his planes to crash. I managed to counter phil with my surviving air and naval which then lead to the allies giving up cause germany wa sstacked in bryansk at this time and I was walking all over russia with japan (i took cauc to help my bud).
Russia ended up stacking with in manch with 17 guys and 2 aa so i went for that instead of india, but apparantly he manages to beat 16 planes and 10 ground units with 2 inf surviving and i lose all of mine along with 4 planes. I never killed china, he fell back than up becuase i was sending all my ground south to keep UK from stacking burma.
Basically, my friends and I are now playtesting to see what the allies can do to fight this. It feels like once india falls, there is no threat to japans mainland territories, so he cant be pecked off at the sides while he pushes for the final VC.
-
If usa is going atlantic, you should have an easy time blowing up.
-
I know that, just would the US be able to come in later and stop u from the VC win?
-
Depends on a number of things.
Allies do not have a total unit value advantage, most of it is airbase/naval/ics. Catching up in income with axis is not hard, but you do drop when Italy gets convoyed out of the game. As long as axis take advantage of their position, they should win.
The biggest problem allies have is USA is 2-3 turns from doing anything in europe or pacific, so when you buy, you are buying because of what you hope things look like 2-3 turns from now. Since the allies are forced more or less into a containment strategy (where you prevent the axis from winning rather than rushing a capital), it is hard to stop an axis win from either side.
I applaud Larry Harris for making people do pacific in a global game, but it is hard to balance the concept.
The J1 DOW gives the illusion of a rich USA that can do whatever he wants, but in reality nothing changes except japan took islands sooner than later at the expense of taking ground forces off of Asia. That is it.
-
Perhaps its easier for USA to first neutralize Japan and then later go Atlantic to stop Germany from getting the Europe win at the last moment (Germany can take all 3 Soviet VCs and still come up short if Allies can nab one in Western Europe). With Japan stopped and neutralized, Allies can lose Moscow and still eventually defeat Germany.
That said, every game is different. Given the tremendous variation it’s difficult to form principles or give out opinions on questions like this.
-
yeah most people do what you said zhukov. Egypt is out of position for germany. so you got to go KJF hard early on then turn around and save europe.
It helps to convoy italy out of the game, because it forces germany into mech/tank push for egypt or late game sea lion.
-
But KJF can be tricky for US since japan can get an almost equal income very quickly while also being able to play defensively with its navy. (threatening to counter attack if US tries to move to certain places).
-
Exactly my point, usa has to go full pacific to stop the pacific win, he is best off going full pac sooner than later. europe in the later phases is much more effective.
provide subs to convoy southern france and normandy. some naval to assist uk in convoying sz 97 if necessary. As far as a full fledged fleet with drops on europe early on… dream on.
Honestly I think the pacific half of the map is fine in global. Europe half is just messed up. Easy fix, give russia a bomber (I am going to campaign for this, because russia is a snooze fest).
-
I can definitely see the advantage of a J1 DoW in the Pacific but what is the alternative if your German ally feels that he needs to keep the USA out of Europe for the maximum three turns?
Just push into China and try to hit Russia from behind? Or tell Berlin to suck it up and DoW anyway?
:-D
-
germany should dow on g2, and stack up in front on nov.
-
@Cow:
Honestly I think the pacific half of the map is fine in global. Europe half is just messed up. Easy fix, give russia a bomber (I am going to campaign for this, because russia is a snooze fest).
Cow, I may join you in this campaign. I like the idea. Even if it proves to give the Allies a slight advantage, I still think that it is OK- but I really tend to feel more like it will make the game more intriguing and balanced for most of us. I’ve been pretty involved in the Alpha process since the beginning. Larry will at least listen to this. It can be revised as a Errata or “official change” for 2nd edition. For some reason, I can usually get his ear. He usually listens to me. It seems we see things eye to eye.
Let’s be sure though. I’ll start a voting thread and gather some info. God knows, there has been plenty of online testing with the Final Alpha now. Probably 100+ games at least from the community between TripleA and ABattlemap. We have the evidence of games. Now we just need a concensus of what to add. I, like you will vote for the bomber. Then I will present something to Larry and hopefully he can make one final official change. It may be too late for the the print but it could at least be an official change from the top including in any Errata/FAQ that usually comes out after the game comes out in the fall.
Don’t expect anything fast though. I would think that this won’t be done til after the game comes out. By that time we will even have more game evidence to warrant the change. Be patient, let’s see if we can get this done. :-)
-
I really do not think Russia needs any more help. Do you not think starting income of37 and a probable 5 NO(12 or 13inf) is enough to keep Germany out? I think Russia is just right as it is.
-
When can we have more japan strategies?
-
damnit you guys calling me out for slacking.
Problem is I am debating between 1-3 different j1 setups for j2 dow.
I like the idea of putting a transport on carolines, because it would require the allies to block you in 5 spots to keep you from taking 3 islands. I like all my air on kwangsi or whatever because it can hit burma or szechwan … you could get a good rush in on calcutta.
The sino russian strat is all about finding a balance, because if you don’t take india… at some point you end up with uk pacific walling off egypt… which is ridiculous. Especially if italy got convoyed out of the game. Without a good bankroll for japan, things tend to go awry fast when usa starts coming in hot.
-
my eyes started to bleed after seeing so many people waiting until japan 3 to do anything… so I put up my sino russian strategy. For god sake that should start a revolution lol.
-
There it is up, I still haven’t fully decided which variation of J2 I like, but I do like having all my air near kwangsi so I can hit burma if I feel like it. Just depends on my mood really.
-
:bump:
Any more commentary or imput for japan?
-
I always find whatever I do as Japan the Allies are at my heels at the other flank. Cannot be everywhere. I hate going south for the income and for India leaving China to slowly, but surely regain Asia and I really hate leaving those 18 Russians on my northern border. Attacking them now means I have to kill 24 of them, but leaving them means they will attack when I am stretched everywhere else ( maybe around T4)losing me 6 IPCs and then facing enemies on 2 fronts and a probable minor US factory. I have never won Global as Japan and am resigning myself to being Germany’ s holding partner. but is just so hard not being aggressive and enjoying Japan’ s very strong set up.
-
That is why japan ends calcutta so it faces a 2 or 3 front war after that instead of 4 front.
Suggested Topics
