Here is russia 1. I could not use the Forum connection, but since there is no combat, should not be a problem.
Hope we can fix things tomorrow.
Allies (+16) vs. Axis (darkskies) Coop
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TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 2
Purchase Units - Americans
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Russia: 8 artilleries and 2 infantry
EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Russia: 9 mech_infantrys
EDIT: Changing PUs for Russians from 39 to 41
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
Americans buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 8 submarines; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;Combat Move - Americans
Combat - Americans
Non Combat Move - Americans
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Brazil to 86 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 86 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Morocco
1 artillery, 1 battleship, 1 destroyer, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 89 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Morocco
1 carrier moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Western United States to 91 Sea Zone
1 cruiser moved from 106 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Morocco
2 aaGuns and 2 infantry moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
2 aaGuns, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
2 aaGuns and 2 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Morocco
2 mech_infantrys moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
2 mech_infantrys and 2 transports moved from 101 Sea Zone to 86 Sea Zone
2 mech_infantrys moved from 86 Sea Zone to Brazil
2 mech_infantrys moved from Central United States to Western United States
2 infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone
2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 8 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 64 Sea Zone to 90 Sea Zone
1 bomber moved from French Guiana to French West Africa
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 25 Sea Zone to Wake IslandPlace Units - Americans
5 submarines placed in 101 Sea Zone
1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 3 submarines placed in 10 Sea ZoneTurn Complete - Americans
Americans collect 52 PUs; end with 53 PUs total
Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 58 PUs
Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUs
Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 73 PUs -
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 2
Purchase Units - Chinese
Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
Chinese buy 5 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;Combat Move - Chinese
2 infantry moved from Szechwan to Yunnan
1 fighter moved from Szechwan to YunnanCombat - Chinese
Battle in Yunnan
Chinese attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
Japanese defend with 1 infantry
Chinese win, taking Yunnan from Japanese with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantryNon Combat Move - Chinese
1 fighter moved from Yunnan to Szechwan
1 fighter moved from Szechwan to Sikang
11 infantry moved from Szechwan to Sikang
2 infantry moved from Shensi to TsinghaiPlace Units - Chinese
5 infantry placed in SikangTurn Complete - Chinese
Chinese collect 6 PUs; end with 6 PUs total
Objective Chinese 1 Burma Road: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 12 PUs -
I’ll have to do the Brits tomorrow, sorry. I’m too tired and will make many stupid mistakes if I continue tonight…
The game still looks interesting to me. I am excited that I can finally try a theory of mine and that against dark skies no less!
German bombers now have a lot of options, but they can only go after 1 of them. That is how I thought it was going to be, but I want to see what the effects are over time.Will finish Uk tomorrow.
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no problem. Better to make smart moves slowly than rushing through dumb ones.
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@Arthur:
no problem. Better to make smart moves slowly than rushing through dumb ones.
Well said ABH.
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I think that you are wrong on both parts:
- German bombers have no major targets that they can go after next round.
- The ~11 German bombers from a place such as Paris can project power both west and east. They can scare off the puny American Navy and also push back the Russian forces without even attacking.
With such heavy spending by the US in the Atlantic, the Axis will have to plan for tough times for the next 2-3 rounds while they deal with the various threats. It will be three more rounds before the US can pose much of a nuisance in the Pacific. By that time, Japan will surpass the combined US/ANZAC/India economy. At that point they have won the game in the Pacific. Hence the fallacy of the KGF plan.
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TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 2
Purchase Units - British
British buy 1 airfield, 1 fighter and 4 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
UK_Pacific buy 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;Combat Move - British
2 mech_infantrys moved from India to Shan State
1 fighter moved from Szechwan to Shan State
1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Kenya
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Tanganyika Territory to KenyaCombat - British
Battle in Shan State
British attack with 1 fighter and 2 mech_infantrys
Japanese defend with 1 infantry
British win, taking Shan State from Japanese with 1 fighter and 2 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
Battle in Kenya
British attack with 1 armour, 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
Italians defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
British win, taking Kenya from Italians with 1 armour, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for British: 1 mech_infantry
Casualties for Italians: 1 artillery and 1 infantryNon Combat Move - British
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kenya to Egypt
1 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to 80 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from Persia to 80 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
2 infantry moved from Persia to 80 Sea Zone
2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
1 fighter moved from Shan State to India
1 infantry moved from Persia to Northwest Persia
British take Northwest Persia from Neutral_Allies
2 infantry moved from Rhodesia to Belgian Congo
1 destroyer moved from 83 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
EDIT: 1 bomber moved from French West Africa to United Kingdom
2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Gibraltar
1 mech_infantry moved from Eire to United Kingdom
1 tactical_bomber moved from Malta to Morocco
1 bomber moved from Malta to Egypt
2 fighters moved from Malta to Egypt
1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to Morocco
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Eastern United States to Central United StatesPlace Units - British
1 airfield placed in Gibraltar
1 fighter and 4 infantry placed in United KingdomTurn Complete - British
British collect 30 PUs; end with 30 PUs totalPlace Units - UK_Pacific
2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in IndiaTurn Complete - UK_Pacific
Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 1
Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 37 Sea Zone. Rolls: 5,1,3,6,6,4,6,3,3,4,5,5
UK_Pacific collect 6 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 6 PUs total
Some Units in India change ownership: 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry -
I agree that KGF is never, and a limited early focus on Europe (which I am doing and is not considered KGF) is almost never, a good idea. Only if Japan allows it but I think you and I have the same ideas about that. After I became stronger with the axis, I realized that the USA strategy appears to be restricted to: start to spend heavy in the Pacific and a little in Europe, slowly increasing the spending in Europe over time. End of Allied options.
This is why my interest in the game (in general), is… ‘wavering’.
The more evidence I gather that even a limited early focus on Europe from the USA is not good, the more annoyed I get. But, I am not yet at the point that I see no hope at all for a limited early Europe focus anymore, so I keep looking for possibilities untill I know for certain. At which point I probably stop playing (or have renewed enthousiasm). Depending on how limited (or not) the strategic options for the USA really are. I want a limited early focus on Europe at least to be not an automatic loss for the allies (if they keep in Europe what is produced in Europe).Anyway, for our game, we’ll have to see how it goes.
I do think that Germany has major options to attack with their bombers. The USN, as an example, could be attacked and Germany could win it, but at a huge cost to the luftwaffe.
I was thinking: let’s keep the USN small as a bait. If Germany attacks it, what will that do for the eastern front… But if you think it’s better not to trade the USN for (a large part of) the Luftwaffe, then that is an interesting situation as well. Tbh, Germany not taking the bait is what I feared most, as I have not yet thought about how to solve the problems that this will raise ;-). -
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 2
Purchase Units - Italians
Italians buy 1 armour and 5 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;Politics - Italians
Italians takes Political Action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians
Italians succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Italians and Russians from Neutrality to WarCombat Move - Italians
1 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Greece
1 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Greece
1 bomber and 2 fighters moved from Southern Italy to Greece
1 infantry moved from Northern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Northern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 97 Sea Zone to Greece
1 infantry moved from 97 Sea Zone to Greece
1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Tunisia to Libya
1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Tobruk to LibyaCombat - Italians
Battle in Greece
Italians attack with 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 4 infantry
Neutral_Allies defend with 4 infantry
Italians win, taking Greece from Neutral_Allies with 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 4 infantry
Casualties for Italians: 2 infantryNon Combat Move - Italians
1 fighter moved from Greece to Southern Italy
1 fighter moved from Greece to Southern Italy
1 bomber moved from Greece to Southern Italy
2 aaGuns and 4 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern Italy
2 artilleries moved from Southern France to Northern Italy
3 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Romania
2 armour moved from Yugoslavia to Bessarabia
2 aaGuns and 1 infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Romania
1 destroyer moved from 97 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
1 cruiser moved from 97 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from British Somaliland to EthiopiaPlace Units - Italians
3 mech_infantrys placed in Southern Italy
1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Northern ItalyTurn Complete - Italians
Italians collect 19 PUs; end with 19 PUs total
Objective Italians 1 Control The Mediterranean: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 24 PUs -
If you wanted to tempt me to attack the Atlantic fleet, you should have fewer ships. I can just wait for them to do something useful. Dropping units off in Africa is not a big deal to me. When you had build 20 PUs in Africa, I gave up hope of capturing Egypt before turn 8. If your fleet swing further into the Med or sails up the coast of France, then I will obliterate it. Having another 3-6 bombers will make the attack quite easy.
The problem with KGF is that the Allies cannot strike a major blow against the Axis. It does delay the advance into Russia but at a massive cost in the Pacific region. Your attack at Shan State (not unexpected) pushed off the conquest of India until J4, but that capitol will fall with sufficient time for the Japanese forces to return to the Pacific Ocean on J5. The US will have a round to hassle the Pacific islands, but after that the enormous Japanese economy will be wreaking havoc everywhere.
I faced a similar Allied strategy in a live game and the US resigned after 6 rounds.
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Hehheh, yeah. But less ships wouldn’t be bait, that would just be fun for Germany.
The problem with KGF is the split Victory Conditions of the 2nd ed… The problem with KGF is that in the first edition players could do KGF over and over and the axis could only cry on the floor about it. So the 2nd edition came with 6VC… I know that. The allies could win the game without the USA spending a single IPC in the Pacific and withdrawing even all it’s ships and aircraft from it. Something had to be done, but I don’t like how it is right now either. It’s the other way around and too a-historical at that.
I can see it is not going to work. The allies can now only transition back into a JF by relocating the USN from Europe into the Pacific again (3turns until it reaches Pac either via SA or Panama), or have a lot of floating IPCs in Europe that are not doing anything useful… But if we’re talking JF, the allies can do that more effectively if done from the start. JF, not KJF. Europe cannot be completely left alone, so it will still mean finding the right balance. So how about we start over? I think besides KGF (obviously), also a limited early focus on Europe can be listed as suboptimal at least. Possibly shining if the Germans attack the USN.
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my new game against bmnielsen….i’m taking a totally different approach from my first two games against him. most likely he will have 10 bombers at the end of G2, which is combined with his 10 other planes…enjoy the show :)
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If we were to restart, I would want to be the Allies and you get to try the Dark Skies strategy. Not sure if that is of interest for you.
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Curious about how your game will go, ad!.
I don’t know bm’s reputation with the Japanese, but let’s assume he will take Hawaii if you spend too much in Europe ;-). For me dividing the USA is the most difficult part of this game. Good luck!@ Arthur Bomber Harris:
No problem man. That’s actually much more to my liking, because I think you are more experienced with KJF/JF related strategies. If you can play the allied first turn (and place the bid) as if you don’t know what the axis strategy will be, I’m definately in! Do you think you’ll need a 20bid or are you confident enough to show us you can do it with less? State your bid units and where I should place them and I’ll start a game, sir!I am much more confident about an allied early JF than GF, but I’ll play along ;-). This is the first time I’d play DS myself so I may or may not ask for some clarifications/tips at some points.
First one I have already: How much German bombers does this strategy require? I saw bm build 12 in 4 turns and no more, but also saw talks on this forum about 16. I want to know this so I won’t fall out of my DS-role. -
I’ve only played one complete game with Dark skies. I had about 16 at the end of turn 7. I would say that 12 is the minimum to have the strategy work. The key will be the ability for the air force to destroy the Allied navy in a single turn so that they don’t dare approach the coast. Once they build sufficient Navy so that you can’t obliterate them, it isn’t worth building additional bombers. So much will depend on the number of ground troops that you need to support the Russian campaign.
For my bid, please put a British sub with the cruiser next to Gibraltar, a sub with the Carrier group in the Med, and an artillery in Alexandria. I think that 16 should be a reasonable bid.
In turns of scrambles, the Brits will not do it if the sea battles are overwhelming.
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I’ll start the game in a few days, because I am away. Looking forward to it!
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Sounds good. I will probably be out this weekend. I have to enjoy the last days of winter before it officially ends!
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TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 1
Purchase Units - Germans
Germans buy 3 artilleries, 1 bomber and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;Combat Move - Germans
1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone
2 bombers moved from Germany to 111 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 110 Sea Zone
2 fighters moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
2 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Norway to 111 Sea Zone
1 battleship moved from 113 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 124 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 117 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 103 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
3 armour, 2 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France
1 artillery, 3 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France
3 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to France
1 fighter moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia
1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Yugoslavia
2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Yugoslavia
1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia
1 armour moved from Poland to Yugoslavia
1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Romania to YugoslaviaCombat - Germans
Battle in France
Germans attack with 6 armour, 3 artilleries, 7 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys
French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry; British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery
Germans captures 19PUs while taking French capital
Germans converts factory_major into different units
Germans win, taking France from French with 6 armour, 3 artilleries and 4 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 32
Casualties for Germans: 7 infantry
Casualties for French: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry
Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 artillery
Battle in 106 Sea Zone
Germans attack with 2 submarines
British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport
Germans win, taking 106 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 transport
Battle in 111 Sea Zone
Germans attack with 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber
British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British
Germans win with 2 bombers, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 28
Casualties for Germans: 2 submarines
Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
Battle in 110 Sea Zone
Germans attack with 1 battleship, 3 fighters, 1 submarine and 3 tactical_bombers
French defend with 1 cruiser; British defend with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser
Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British
Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans
Germans win with 1 battleship, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 38
Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
Casualties for French: 1 cruiser
Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 cruiser
Battle in Yugoslavia
Germans attack with 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 8 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
Neutral_Allies defend with 5 infantry
Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Neutral_Allies with 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 6 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 5 infantry
Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
Trigger Germans Conquer France: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_French_1_Liberation_Switch attached to FrenchNon Combat Move - Germans
1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis
1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from Norway to 113 Sea Zone
2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 113 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 114 Sea Zone to Poland
2 infantry moved from Denmark to Western Germany
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
3 aaGuns moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany
2 bombers, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 111 Sea Zone to Western Germany
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Southern Italy
1 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria
Germans take Bulgaria from Neutral_Axis
3 aaGuns, 3 artilleries and 11 infantry moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary
1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea ZonePlace Units - Germans
1 bomber placed in Western Germany
3 artilleries and 2 infantry placed in GermanyTurn Complete - Germans
Germans collect 39 PUs; end with 58 PUs total
Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUs
Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs -
Here we go again. (K)JF style I presume. The very reason why I suggested to start over, because our first game the allies had to transition into JF by turn 3, which ofc can be done more efficient if done so from the start. Apart from the fact that I don’t like the general JF requirement put on the allies in this edition. At all. If you Always follow the same strategy because you like it that way, that’s ok for a game. As long as other strategies can work as well. But with A&AG40.2, JF is much more a requirement then a preferred playstyle. Given that Japan just invests a lot of IPCs for naval combat.
I am very curious. I still don’t think the axis can make it against a JF. And there are some very true things said in that thread about the Dark Skies strategy. I should have serious enough problems approaching Moscow with Germany and against a good JF it’s going to be hard for Japan as well… But I’ll do my best ofc ;-). If I miss something really crucial please point it out to me. I have never tried DS before myself so I have no illusions about mistakes I will be making and that’s exactly what this playtest should not suffer.
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Looks like a standard German opener with approximately standard results. It is a tough choice whether to feign G3 Sealion or proceed as you did. Not a big difference either way.
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