@SuperbattleshipYamato hard to argue against any of this really. The IJN was so far gone by this point in the war that there’s not really much they could have done to salvage their situation one way or another. The bit about the allies not having many LSTs in general is something I never knew before though.
Alternative Wake Island Scenarios
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Was recently restudying this battle and still think it was one of the biggest mistakes to recall the Saratoga task force. Curious what others thoughts are on the battle, and assuming Cunningham hadn’t surrendered, what do you believe would have happened?
GG
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I believe that even a remote risk to an American Fleet Carrier was not worth the rescue of a few hundred Marines and construction workers in the opening days of the war. A lost of a single US Carrier in opening days of the War would completely change the US war plans.
Island was not that important of an outpost, the Island was not recaptured until the surrender. Wake would end up being a prison for the Japanese occupation force who constantly getting targeted by bombing missions and forced to live off minimum supplies, mostly by submarines. -
Cunningham was out of options.
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Garg, from his perspective, sure. But, the point is what if he hadn’t surrendered. Japan had 280 killed or wounded on the second assault. That was 10% of their landing force, and casualties for the US was 10% losses for the entire siege, plus, the marines would have been picking up SNLF equipment. I’m not saying they wouldn’t have lost eventually, I give them a week, maybe a little longer.
GG
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Love the poll question! Nice work.
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He surrendered because he was overwhelmed, out of equipment, weapons, supplies. A fight to the death, as the 1942 hollywood movie portrays would have been as effective as a pointless Banzai charge. I give them until midnight on the 23rd.
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Thank you all.
I love learning from you about the Pacific actions. -
@ABWorsham:
I believe that even a remote risk to an American Fleet Carrier was not worth the rescue of a few hundred Marines and construction workers in the opening days of the war. A lost of a single US Carrier in opening days of the War would completely change the US war plans. Island was not that important of an outpost, the Island was not recaptured until the surrender. Wake would end up being a prison for the Japanese occupation force who constantly getting targeted by bombing missions and forced to live off minimum supplies, mostly by submarines.
Agreed. Wake was much less important than the Philippines, yet the Philippines themselves were recognized as undefendable when the US switched in the 1930s from War Plan Orange to its coordinated set of RAINBOW plans. At both Wake and Corregidor, the Americans held out valiantly until – as Garg said – they were out of options and at the end of their endurance. And it’s my impression that, in U.S. public opinion at the time, they were praised for having held out above and beyond the call of duty (thus surrendering under honourable circumstances), not condemned (as Japanese soldiers would have been in the reverse situation) for not having fought and died to the last man.
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Cunningham was out of options.
Agreed. They were virtually down to throwing rocks at the Japanese. Even as it was, they virtually had to be captured before they finally surrendered.
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I give them the rest of the day before they were wiped out, not that I find anything wrong with fighting to the last man, but they really were doomed.
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I give them the rest of the day before they were wiped out, not that I find anything wrong with fighting to the last man, but they really were doomed.
I heard they were the only POWs that were treated with respect by the Japanese because they had to be truly defeated before they surrendered as it was. They really were more “captured” and less “surrendered” anyway.
I don’t know for a FACT that is true, it’s just what I had heard from WWII vets and books I read. No primary sources like Admiral Yamamoto’s personal memoirs or anything. lol!
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Also, you cant dog on Cunningham too much, he did have almost 100 civilians he had to look out for. It’s one thing to order the United States Marine Corp to go out in a blaze of glory, but they had responsibilities beyond their honor. Not that is saved the civilians in the long run :/
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