Great Leyte Gulf alternate timeline article

Bismarck

That tea $hit got a lot of allied soldiers killed during WWI though and Germany knew UK would do that.

@rjpeters70:

Realistically, how much better off would Germany be today had it not fought World Wars I and II?

An Industrial Challenge would possibly occur with the U.K., France and Weimar Germany on board (later Romania,Hungary, Spain etc).
Military wise would each European Nation set the Norm up to a European fair, were they would show their goods and news at these fairs/markets and even trade.
Europe would bloom and boom, the U.S. and the Soviets would be jealous, maybe Japan would kick in, in the fairs for a good setting and settlement on the Asian market.

The Weimar Republic would sent very good goods in all over the World.

@rjpeters70:

They could have been like the Kurds, a people without a state), it might have significantly larger population, it could have absorbed Austria even, had the Austro-Hungarian empire collapsed.

Not likley since Germany was allready a Republic and absorbing Austria was in the mind set of A.H. not the Weimarian Republic.

@rjpeters70:

Would there have been a Soviet bear even?

A very good possibility but the European states could have been a very good counter part of it, working together and establishing an European country with its own Market like wall street.

@rjpeters70:

Was World War II and the rebuilding of Germany necessary for its modern industrial capacity?

Yes and No

Yes - because of WWII the world knew early about German Autobahn, Rockets, Jet Engine and Atom physics and working accurate to the highest limit.

No - because it would have taken longer depending on where the favors and the money would have flown to!

I have read the Newt Gimgrich and William Forstchen  what if Gettysburg trilogy. Could not put them down.
Loved reading about generals I knew in a different context, but am aware is not WW2.

Japan would have lost that battle to the western powers.

The Great War was really a European conflict with a minor chase in the Pacific against a number of Light German cruisers. The Central powers objectives did not include much outside Europe/ Middleast

It would be the 100 million N. Americans against only the Germans plus the “desirable” races.

The massive extinction of these other people would not take place until everything globally were settled. I think the limited nature of the extermination would not be on the grand scale until America was dealt with. I think we are assuming a level of cooperation in former UK colonies akin with the French conquests, so the level of Serbian reaction would have been somewhat mitigated by the axis partners carving up that nation and exacting the type of ethnic violence that occurred much latter. Germany had a commitment to pit old enemies against each other in an effort to make their job easier.

The Soviets i feel would be somewhat difficult, but they did convert a few divisions of Russians who were against Stalin.  The middle east was another basket of potential friends who could be enlisted easily to fight the Jews. Germany raised a number of Muslim units in the war.

If Hitler was removed, the replacement would be far worse because a NAZI victory would remove all the remaining inhibitions against violence against what they deemed lessor men. The SS would have selected somebody like Heydrich who had the most firm convictions of their type.  The choice would have to be political leader, and not a military one.

On the German-Japanese partnership, i think they would not fight until USA had surrendered first. Once all opposition was gone eventually it would happen, but the Germans would have the best scientists, so the Japanese would be at a disadvantage.

That’s a really cool link, and has given me some intriguing ideas for an alternative rules set. Thanks for the read! :)

KurtGodel7, very good post, thank you.

I’m still not convinced however, I’ll reply to a few of your points below further:

Germany desperately needed the Russian oil by 1943 (as well as Russian grain which I will discuss further below).  That they failed to take the Caucasus during this time was their last realistic chance at victory, IMO.  However, had they taken the oil wells, but with the Russians destroying them in the process as was quite likely, would the Germans be able to restore the flow of oil in sufficient time? It might take months, even years to rebuild the necessary infrastructure in the best of circumstances, let alone during a brutal war.  The German industry was already hard pressed to supply the necessary armaments and did not have a great deal of experience with oil industry in the first place.  I think they would not have been able to do this.

The same idea goes for the chromium, vanadium, etc., though this would be less difficult for the Germans to accomplish (or mitigate as you also suggest) than the oil problem.

While Germany might have been able to supply an equivalent amount of money, material and engineers to work on their atomic program, there simply were much fewer top nuclear physicists in all Europe than existed in the US.  Consequently, it would have probably cost more and taken longer than the US program for this reason alone.  I have no doubt they could have eventually done it, but I don’t see how they develop nuclear weapons before the allies developed a delivery system that could get through their defenses.

The German V-2 was a technological marvel, but other than size, no more advanced than the rockets being built by Dr. Goddard.  After the war, when Dr. Goddard was able to examine a captured V-2, he was convinced the Germans had stolen his work.  And the Germans might have because most of his designs were on file in the US patent office, available for public viewing (which the Germans did prior to the war).  I think had the Americans wanted to (and Dr. Goddard certainly did) they could have built a superior rocket in a couple months and have it mass-produced in six.  As the A-bombs designs at that time were quite heavy, it might have taken longer than that to build a nuclear capable rocket…but how much longer?

Alternatively, the Allies could have either copied the German jets to enable a delivery system, or devise other means (boats/submarines? special ops?) to deliver these weapons.

In addition, I consider the German attack on Russia to be about food as well as oil  The Ukraine was the breadbasket of Europe, and helped the Germans tremendously in 1943.  But food was scarce in 1944 and onward.  Partly this was due to Russian recovery of territory.  But it was also because the Ukraine was normally not sufficient by itself to feed Germany (the year of the capture of Ukraine by the Germans was one of the best years for Ukrainian agriculture as the weather was nearly perfect).  Of course, the poor treatment of the Ukrainians by the Germans did not lend itself to helping this problem either. In order to assure itself of adequate food, I think the Caucasus (the next logical food source) was needed.