Attacking A British Convoy II

[ABWorsham4]

As commander of Norway Hitler has given you orders not to risk all of your units in one engagement with the enemy, he then goes on a long drawn out story how he is a coward on the water and can’t sleep when ships are at sea. As commander of Norway he demands results againist the PQ convoys.

How do you react to the news of this newest convoy?

[Omega1759]

With a bit of luck, the Tirpitz could sink the two heavy cruisers while the 4 destroyers provide some cover.

[Fishmoto37]

@Omega1759:

With a bit of luck, the Tirpitz could sink the two heavy cruisers while the 4 destroyers provide some cover.

With all those escorts there would be so many torpedoes in the water that the Tirpitz would be hit multiple times. Stay at home. Too many escorting warships!

[Gargantua]

I went to the bar…

f-it.

[Witt]

I would order the Scharnhorst and Hipper to sea, explaining I wanted results and that if that meant both ships sank I would not be too displeased: the German navy always goes down fighting.
I would then join Garg at the bar.
I would of course shoot myself if things went awfully.
But only after I had shot Garg(how dare he beat me to the bar!) and written Hitler a letter saying how angry I was and how I would come back to haunt him.

[CWO Marc]

As commander of Norway, word reached you of another Northen Lend Lease Convoy of 35 cargo ships protected by two heavy cruisers, two light cruisers, 8 destroyers and ten corvettes. What do you use to attack the convoy?  <<

This scenario sounds a bit like the situation in which the Scharnhorst was sent out to intercept Russia-bound convoy JW 55B, leading to the Battle of the North Cape.

[Witt]

Thanks Marc. Will look that one up later.
Must have been so hard deciding what to send when intelligence of a convoy reached you.
Imagine if it were false intelligence and you sent your fleet into a trap!
Can’t decide if I would be impetuous and send all available ships and planes or chicken out like Hitler obviously did.
Can it be said fleet actions are the ones most likely to be affected by chance?
I was only thinking how arbitrary some actions were.
We have discussed the importance of the Tirpitz as a deterrent to Royal Navy ops and the fear factor attached to it while still afloat.
Nice work again Worsham.

[CWO Marc]

@wittmann:

Can’t decide if I would be impetuous and send all available ships and planes or chicken out like Hitler obviously did.

And Hitler wasn’t the only one to cause problems.  The German admiral who commanded the Scharnhorst operation (I think his name was Admiral Bey – I haven’t looked up the details) had the added headache of being given contradictory orders by Grand Admiral Doenitz.  On the one hand, Doenitz ordered him to attack the British convoy boldly and with determination; on the other hand, Doenitz also ordered him to avoid getting into trouble and to be cautious about tangling with heavy British naval units.  Such a “sink the enemy but don’t get sunk” directive is worse than useless because all it does is muddy the waters for the poor commander who’s trying to interpret it.

[Raymond Biesinger]

I’m with Garg and witmann in the bar. In this situation: make drunks, not war.

Yrs.,
R.

[Omega1759]

@Fishmoto37:

@Omega1759:

With a bit of luck, the Tirpitz could sink the two heavy cruisers while the 4 destroyers provide some cover.

With all those escorts there would be so many torpedoes in the water that the Tirpitz would be hit multiple times. Stay at home. Too many escorting warships!

That is the main concern, but what is the range of the torpedoes? Has the Tirpitz any speed disadvantage over the escorts?

[Gargantua]

Did someone say this bar has escorts?

[Gargantua]

As commander of Norway, word reached you of another Northen Lend Lease Convoy of 35 cargo ships protected by two heavy cruisers, two light cruisers, 8 destroyers and ten corvettes. What do you use to attack the convoy?

Alright,

35 cargo ships
2 heavy cruisers
2 light cruisers
8 destroyers
10 corvettes

I’ll distract the cruisers with my brash sense of Humor,

Wittman can convince the destroyers to fight the covettes,

and Raymond will get a shot at one of these “juicy” cargo girls, after picking the best one of the 35. If we’re lucky… 2 of her friends will come along aswell.

Sound good? :P

[Gargantua]

@Omega1759:

@Fishmoto37:

@Omega1759:

With a bit of luck, the Tirpitz could sink the two heavy cruisers while the 4 destroyers provide some cover.

  With all those escorts there would be so many torpedoes in the water that the Tirpitz would be hit multiple times. Stay at home. Too many escorting warships!

That is the main concern, but what is the range of the torpedoes? Has the Tirpitz any speed disadvantage over the escorts?

Don’t worry about the “Range” of our torpedo’s. Once the tubes are flooded, and the ports open, even Raymond’s small french one is fierce.

As for a speed disadvantage over the escorts. Probably. The escorts have immense experience in quickly breaking everything down into just the ‘parts’.

[Raymond Biesinger]

@Gargantua:

Once the tubes are flooded, and the ports open, even Raymond’s small french one is fierce.

Ha!

Yrs.,
R.

[Fishmoto37]

@Omega1759:

@Fishmoto37:

@Omega1759:

With a bit of luck, the Tirpitz could sink the two heavy cruisers while the 4 destroyers provide some cover.

  With all those escorts there would be so many torpedoes in the water that the Tirpitz would be hit multiple times. Stay at home. Too many escorting warships!

That is the main concern, but what is the range of the torpedoes? Has the Tirpitz any speed disadvantage over the escorts?

The escorting destroyers would probably not want to get too far away from the convoy. So they would not attack unless Tirpitz pressed the attack. If Tirpitz kept firing at long range the escorts would have to try and stop her. I would say in calm seas the destroyers could get inside of torpedo range if they did not get hit first. Tirpitz would not have the speed of a pocket battleship but might get away in rough seas as the escorts would not venture far from the convoy.

[Omega1759]

According to wikipedia, the Tirpitz had a top speed of 30 knots.

In comparizon, the destroyers had a speed of 27 knots according to this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt_class_destroyer

[Fishmoto37]

@Omega1759:

According to wikipedia, the Tirpitz had a top speed of 30 knots.

In comparizon, the destroyers had a speed of 27 knots according to this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt_class_destroyer

The Tirpitz was indeed a fast battleship. WWII destroyers speed ranged all the way to the mid 30s knts. The U.S. Fletcher class ships were rated at 36 knts. I imagine that older types might fall short of 30 knts. So I guess it all depends on which type were in the scenario in question.

[CWO Marc]

@Fishmoto37:

So I guess it all depends on which type were in the scenario in question.

Yes, and depending on the situation there are several factors which can come into play – for example the battleship’s tactical radius, which means how tightly it can swing around on its course when it’s moving at full speed.  The Iowa class battleships, for example, were highly maneuverable for ships of their size (as I recall, they had double rudders), and at least one Iowa class captain used to say that he liked to think of his ship as a big destroyer.  One advantage of having an agile ship is that it increases your chances of surviving a torpedo attack by “combing” the tracks of the incoming torpedoes: swinging your ship around so that it’s parallel to the tracks rather than broadside to them, which decreases the amount of surface area against which the torpedoes might score a hit.

[Omega1759]

Remember that the 4 destroyers can “screen” the capital ship from torpedo attacks, if it comes down to that.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Would had loved to use the Prinz Eugen and eight destroyers combined with a Luftflotte ,but it would have been hard to arrange it with the Prinz timewise…