ITALY IS SCREWED!

[Imperious Leader]

Quotes are being worked on.

oh and it’s “sealion”

[soulfein]

[quote author=Imperious Leader link=topic=27485.msg970132#msg970132 date=1339002536]
Quotes are being worked on.

oh and it’s “sealion”
[/quote]

u grammer nazi :)

[guy]

so italy is MEANT to get convoyed out of the game, eh?

if the nazis spend their resources preventing this (hitting the s. france fleet, hitting sz91, etc.), what happens then? if a screwed italy is prerequisite to effective allied play then i’d say the allies need more work.

now spending these many early strikes against UK fleet may be costly, but italy in the mid east is a big prob.  a slow march on moscow, plus italy running around africa/mid east seems like a big allied distraction.

at least japan gets a run at VC

at best, US dont respond properly and USSR falls before waves of German and Italian troops

[Witt]

Hi Guy. Are you saying Germany should go all out to help Italy including hitting the Cruiser in SZ91  and the French in SZ93 as Garg has said? Might be the only way, but then which UK Home Fleet do we not attack?

[Alsch91]

I can’t think of a good reason to hit 93 on G1.
The cost of 1-2 planes isn’t worth the benefit of removing 2 comparatively useless ships that Italy can kill by itself while losing only around 1 sub.
Killing that 110 death fleet is way more important to both Germany and Italy.

If alive, it swings down to 92 on UK1, joining with the Med fleet.  At that point say goodbye to Italy doing anything for the rest of the game.  And UK doesn’t have to suicide any fighters into 97.

Buying naval (CV + 2 TT) to threaten Sealion is by far the most beneficial thing you can do for Italy.  If UK insists on hitting 97, you take London for cheap.  It’s not nearly as powerful as in other versions, but Sealion is still possible.  It’s practically guarenteed if UK wants to leave only one of its fighters on London.

[Witt]

I have not succeeded with Sealion and had Italy neutered in my last few games, so am open to different ideas. I am an old stick in the mud and G1, whatever game, sink UK fleet. It hurts to contemplate another opener, but thought some had suggested not attacking Channel fleet. I  believe the Med is the key to European  victory and for all my good intentions have not saved Italy since OOB.Equally,  If I gave France to Italy to finish, might not need to attack SZs 91 or 93 with Germany,  as Italy could buy 3 ships to replace losses. Still planning.

[Cow]

just rush russia like everyone else. It takes at least 10-15 air units to fly in to save it. Hell if it bothers you so much just have japan industrial bomb it for you with 6 bombers.

[Witt]

Thanks, but I rarely replace lost Air units and do not buy Bombers. Japan always has its hands full as it is without spending to help Germany. My friends and I have never been  keen on SBR. We are ground sloggers at heart!

[Noll]

In my opinion the key to victory with the Axis is not any rush to capitol strategy, but playing the economic game.

Rush Russia and make him put everything in Moscow, get Caucasus/Middle East/Stalingrad.

If you succesfully get Novgorod, Volgograd, Caucasus and let’s say 2 out of 3 middle east you’re getting: 24 IPCs out of NOs alone, around 20 IPCs in Russian territories, plus Germany’s base 45 IPCs you get almost 90 IPCs.
Meanwhile Japan should get 60 IPCs with a conservative strategy, can even achieve 70.

This means Axis is scoring 160IPCs/turn (I’m purposely ignoring Italy)
vs
USA = 70
UK = 35
UKP = 2 IPCs (yeah, 2)
Anzac = 15
China = ?
Russia = 20ish (in the event that they took all african territories but you took back Iraq)

[Witt]

You are right: economic parity is the key. Will say it( and mean it!)am not doing Sealion again. Will do Russia on 2, but that means not buying a Carrier. Has to be 3 transports and a Destroyer and then UK will call my bluff again and I am left thinking is Sealion worth a shot.
Catch 22 come to mind!

[Spendo02]

I try to lure the UK into attacking my G1 purchase of a SS, DD and CV that I place in SZ112 and merge with the CR and TT.  My G2 and G3 purchases include 2-3 SS each round and really puts the UK on the defensive by having to purchase DD for the first couple of rounds or face Convoys in SZ109.

This generally buys Italy the time it needs to secure NO’s and take Egypt.

[Canuck12]

I am of the opinion that the best way to help Italy out is to get Southern France with Germany. It doesnt take much out of your attack off the top (Just a couple of mechs and a tank or tac) and it allows you to help italy out all game. This can include taking Gib, mopping up Egy, or just sheltering Italian transports.

You get a big return on investment for the axis by helping Italy out.

[Witt]

I take Southern France, but  never build there although I mean to. Spendo do you not buy transports to even have an option of a Sealion then? Interesting. You also  an budget for 2 Subs, because you do not buy transports I suppose. When do you hit Russia?

[Spendo02]

I generally don’t like to Sea Lion at all.  However I do like to give the appearance that its still plausible when UK1 goes.  I’ve found I really only try a SL if UK1 does something wild like buying a minor in Egypt and only puts 2-3 Inf out on UK1.

Then G2 I SBR London with the kitchen sink and buy max TT which puts me at 11 TT to invade with, which should be plenty to do the job.

Basically I feign a SL and then convoy and keep the UK on its heels dealing with SS while I keep churning out Armor and only Armor in Germany.

This is a new strategy for me, so I’m trying to decide on the optimal time to move on Russia.  So far I like G3 to give myself the punch of the Armor from Paris, the Armor I use to take Yugo and the Armor purchases on G2.

[Witt]

Thanks for the answer Spendo. Saw from your 1st message that you only had 1TT and had a CV and DD and  Sub, that is why I asked whether you did not Sealion. Thought  most of us G1 bought 2TT;  that was my query.

[guy]

hitting sz93 with german air is pricey, but it frees up italian air and navy to focus their attention on egypt/mid east.  plus, germany hits sz91 to thin UK medit naval assets, and still has enough to sack paris and blow out sz110.  the fleet in sz111 can’t do much but run away to canada after this.

also i like the idea of hitting 110 with just enough to make the UK think about scrambling, as those air units are needed to solidify a taranto raid.  crafty and devious.

couple this with navy buys or just save ur money g1
now NOBODY (even you) truly knows what ur up to

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :-D

[Mallery29]

what are you all buying for the first two IT turns (obviously 10 for the first one, but let me know what you expect to have earned after IT1, and what you expect that you lost)….this is to help me on the Europe side of the house since I’m still learning Global.

[guy]

italy’s buys are ALWAYS situational. you never really know what ur gonna have to work with until its your turn.

so basically if taranto happened UK1, i’d say start pumping cheap ground immediately and maybe a fighter turn 1. once it looks like italy is gonna get thrashed, use what naval forces you have left to try and snag a few NOs (might need german help too) for a few turns so you can produce upwards of 20 inf plus some art and air support.  italians defending from western invasion is sometimes all you can do, but its better than throwing valuable IPCs to the bottom of the med, and it really helps the germans keep up the pressure in russia

on the other hand, if you’ve got a good fleet intact, spend ur resources cracking into the mid east quickly. do NOT squander italian naval assets clearing the med unless you HAVE to (use german air for this if possible), and don’t leave your valuable shipping exposed. i find that buying navy for the italians is bad, as they don’t have enough ground units to defend with once the western allies kick in the door.  i’m thinking like a DD and a carrier max for the entirety of the game. maybe another TT if things go well

[RedHunter]

I have seen Italy used as a fighter pump if Africa is cut off. You get around 10 bucks a turn to spend so you just pump out a fighter every turn and either stack them high in Italy or use them to help hold places that Germany takes. That extra fighter helps for Russian counter attacks for sure. Its maybe not the best move for Italy but unless the dice go well or Germany is willing to hamstring itself for a turn or two I have yet to find a best move for Italy. It all comes down to the dice in the Med.  As people have said you are either getting 10 or 40 with Italy depending on the first turn dice.

[Cow]

italy makes 40 that is game.