The New Sculpts…

[reloader-1]

IL, you have 18 new sculpts in your list.

[Rebel]

17… but still pretty good. To many Artillery? ;)

[Hobbes]

@reloader-1:

IL, you have 18 new sculpts in your list.

I think you can safely scrap the New Aircraft Carrier for the Soviets ;)

I’m a bit divided between the need for new Infantry sculps - nice to have them, but at the same time the current sculpts have existed since Classic and they are probably one of the A&A features by now.

[reloader-1]

18. (In IL’s list)

4 new US
3 new Japan
4 new UK
4 new German
3 new USSR

= 18

[jim010]

I believe the Hood is meant to be a battleship in the game.

It was a capital ship, and most certainly not used as a cruiser, light or heavy.

[CWO Marc]

@jim010:

I believe the Hood is meant to be a battleship in the game.
It was a capital ship, and most certainly not used as a cruiser, light or heavy.

It’s ironic that WotC is using a battlecruiser in a battleship role because that’s exactly what how the Hood was used against the Bismarck, with the result that it promptly got blown out of the water.

[jim010]

Thin deck armour was an issue, certainly, but it was also a lucky shot on the part of the Germans.

These battles pretty much boiled down to who got the first lucky shot.  I wouldn’t hold that against the Hood, as it was a powerful capital ship that the Germans feared.

Other battlecruisers during the war performed well in the German, British and Japanese navies.  Hood was probably the best of them all.

[CWO Marc]

@jim010:

Other battlecruisers during the war performed well in the German, British and Japanese navies.Â

Good performance in general fleet duties and good performance in combat against a battleship aren’t the same thing.  Other than the Hood-Bismarck fight, I don’t recall any other battlecruiser-versus-battleship engagements in WWII.  During WWI, the Battle of Jutland showed how dangerous it was for battlecruisers to take on battleships.  It was Jutland, in fact, which caused Britain to scrap plans to build more than one Hood-class battlecruiser…and which led to major revisions to the design for Hood itself (which had just been laid down), including a considerable uprating of its armour.  Ironically, the Third Battlecruiser Squadron commander at Jutland who was killed when his flagship Invincible blew up (only six of the crew of 1,032 officers and men survived) was named Horace Hood.

[jim010]

During WW I, the battlecruiser losses for the British were due to the German battlecruiser fire, not the battleships.  And the losses were not attributed to the light armour, but flash in the magazines.  The Germans discovered this problem previously and fixed it, which is why they didn’t suffer the same battlecruiser losses.

And there were a number of battlecruiser vs battleship battles.  I agree that battlecruisers are vulnerable to plunging fire, but at long ranges.  Medium to close range they are the equal to a battleship in fire power and side armour.

Scharnhorst vs Duke of York and Kirishima vs Washington and South Dakota are just 2 battles off the top of my head where there was a battlecruiser vs a battleship.  Thin deck armour was not a factor in either battle.  One was a lucky hit, and the other had the wrong type of shell was surprised and overwhelmed.

My point is that Hood was one of the world’s most powerful capital ships, and at the time, easily the most recognizable British ship.  It’s loss was tragic, but that should not prejudice the ship against being chosen as a representative of the British capital ships over a lucky hit.  How many other capital ships were lost due to lucky hits?  Bismarck, just to name 1.

Hood was, after all flagship of the British Home Fleet.

[Imperious Leader]

I just got word that WOTC announced 2nd edition 1942 which confirms some of the other sculpts that are new:

New Miniature Sculpts
There are 5 new sculpts in the game including UK artillery,
submarine & destroyer units; German artillery; and a
Russian submarine. There�s even an all-new combat unit:
the Antiaircraft Artillery!

This confirms what partially i already predicted…of the 8 new sculpts that we have no idea you can infer that 5 of them are these above.

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9088

[lozmoid]

Holy sheeet! Only six dice?! A new combat unit… Anti-Aircraft Artillery. Nice!  :lol:

P.S.  Could we please start a new sub topic for this game?

[knp7765]

I am wondering about this new sculpt – the Anti-Aircraft Artillery. They had AA Gun pieces in all of the older versions of A&A, so in that regard it’s not such a new thing. SO, I wonder if this means that each nation will get their own Anti-Aircraft Artillery and they will be in national colors rather than the neutral light grey.

Also, if this is the case, will they be different models of AA Artillery or will they all be the same, just in different colors.

What do you suppose will be the new German Artillery? This is assuming they don’t go with the 88mm.

[lozmoid]

Well, knp7765… the line that I find intriguing is this one:

There’s even an all-new combat unit: the Antiaircraft Artillery!

I mean, I don’t know about you but I think we could be looking at an all-new combat unit with its own unique stats and abilities. At least, that’s what I’ve gathered.

Perhaps Artillery and AA Guns get combined into one unit now?

[knp7765]

Hey Lozmoid,
I don’t think they will combine artillery and AA guns. Two of the new sculpts mentioned were UK and German artilliery pieces. I think you were right in the first place, that we are getting a whole new unit with it’s own unique values. If that is the case, then they may well be nation specific as well. If they decide to transfer the Alpha+3.9 AA gun rules over to these new games, then countries will be able to buy many AA guns and have them all in one place for maximum effect. Also, since AA guns get destroyed when an enemy captures that territory, they don’t need to be the neutral grey color anymore, unlike ICs that can still be captured.

[lozmoid]

I hear you loud and clear, my friend. Yes it follows that they would incorporate the new AA Gun rules into this version (and the new 1941 game?). So I wonder what this new ‘Antiaircraft Artillery’ unit will do? I agree that they will be nation-specific mould/sculpt and colour. I am highly anticipating this game, and if it’s cheap enough, I’ll definitely pick up a copy.

[Guest]

When there was talk of a 1941 game with cool new sculpts I thought “Hmmm maybe I’ll buy it for the sculpts”.  But now it seems there may be some new sculpts in a 1941 game and some others in a “new” 1942 game.  You can bet some community college business school graduate in their marketing department dreamed that up to soak the “enfranchised” players.  Nope.  Count me out.  I won’t buy either one if they did that.

[reloader-1]

Vance…

I think it makes perfect sense. A game that retails for $20 will get 5 new sculpts, and another at a slightly higher retail gets 16 new sculpts (I don’t think they will overlap). It’s a free market, and a brilliant idea. If you want the new units, buy the games.

I really don’t see anything wrong with that. They are trying to increase sales of the 1942 version, including to players who already own it. Therefore, they need to offer something “extra” to entice those players.

If they instead followed your concept of packing ALL the new units into the new 1941 game, they would sell less total games, which means less profit, which means less likelihood of new A&A games coming out.

Again, I have no problem with the strategy.

[Guest]

Oh it makes sense alright, and I understand why they would do it.  But it shows a cynical disrespect for their fan base and a move like that would be in very poor taste.

[Yavid]

I’m thinking the old AA gun is going away. Everyone wave bye bye to the oddest piece in the game. The German AA Artillery will be the 88mm thus German would ‘need’ a new artillery piece. And 21 new scuptors would be awesome. I hope that’s 4 per nation and of course US gets the extra. Plus everyone gets the new AA Artillery.

[reloader-1]

Disrespect? Disrespect would be releasing the game without any new content.

I understand where you are coming from, and I see arguments like yours constantly (“I bought my super BMW/Mercedes and the new model has 50 more HP! How dare they!”). Every manufacturer has to differentiate their product from previous iterations, else no one will buy it. Also, it is much more likely that a person will be a repeat buyer than a brand new customer for any given product, as it is a much tougher sell to have someone buy something without any previous experience with the product.

All in all, I’m glad that we have the opportunity to buy 21 new sculpts (I don’t think the 16 and the 5 new sculpts will overlap). Whether we take advantage of that opportunity is up to us. If WotC wanted to release a super 1939 game with 200 unique new sculpts and powers, and charge $2000, I would still be happy, even though I most probably would not buy the product. Opportunities can never be a bad thing, as long as no one forces you to buy the product.