USA Crush-Turtle or Die

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@Galendae

I played a game against myself under the parameters you described, using your strategy (no bid).

Here are the results (apologies for some of the editing confusion, I assure you, overall there were no IPC irregularities):

2024-4-26-World-War-II-Global-1940-2nd-Edition Human.tsvg

While the results were… inconclusive, I think it’s pretty clear (and we can extrapolate) that the US can certainly beat the Axis back if it knows what’s coming while the Soviets can cause some serious damage when it amasses along the border, ready for a strike. Overall I think the Axis weren’t going to win this one.

Still, I was surprised that Japan was as successful as they were, seizing the West Coast twice.

Let me know if you would like a full game report.

[shadowhawk]

@SuperbattleshipYamato

You where either pulling your punches as the allies or just trying to help the axis in that game. I just checked the full game.

You ofcourse did play with prior knowledge of the Axis plans so you did make some moves to prevent that, but maby also tried not to prevent it to hard as normally you dont know the plans of your opponent.

You could easy destroy the German fleet in the atlantic when it was out in the open. You had the naval forces for it. Round 3 or 4 the fleet is in the middle of the atlantic.
That would have destroyed german plans completely and would have prevented any funny things japan was planning.

With that much forces spend on navy germany was doomed from the start, japan as well as they control nearly nothing on the mainland and china is a beast.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@shadowhawk

Yeah, as the Allies I did make some mistakes. Hence my conclusion that the strategy is indeed a no go if your opponent can recognize it.

[squirecam]

@AndrewAAGamer said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@Galendae said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I don’t recommend allowing Allied bids as high as 24.

Ummm, 50 is a reasonable Bid. If people are giving you less than $24 they don’t know what they are doing.

This is not necessarily the case. FTF bids are not $50. Moreover, in other bid systems such as Gencon you can place more than one unit per territory. So a $60 bid could result in 20 inf in France.

It depends a lot on the context and bid system.

[shadowhawk]

@squirecam said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@AndrewAAGamer said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@Galendae said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I don’t recommend allowing Allied bids as high as 24.

Ummm, 50 is a reasonable Bid. If people are giving you less than $24 they don’t know what they are doing.

This is not necessarily the case. FTF bids are not $50. Moreover, in other bid systems such as Gencon you can place more than one unit per territory. So a $60 bid could result in 20 inf in France.

It depends a lot on the context and bid system.

Yea most people assume that their bid system is the only way it is.
Having no limit on what you can place in 1 country does make bids go down i recon.
24ipc, sure 8 inf in france please. Good luck germany.

Well ok germany will still take it, but hm 8 inf on yunnan could be interesting.
Funny if people give you a huge bid without specifying the rules first, then complain that well you didnt follow the rules, not your fault you both assumed something else.

[squirecam]

@shadowhawk said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@squirecam said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@AndrewAAGamer said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@Galendae said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I don’t recommend allowing Allied bids as high as 24.

Ummm, 50 is a reasonable Bid. If people are giving you less than $24 they don’t know what they are doing.

This is not necessarily the case. FTF bids are not $50. Moreover, in other bid systems such as Gencon you can place more than one unit per territory. So a $60 bid could result in 20 inf in France.

It depends a lot on the context and bid system.

Yea most people assume that their bid system is the only way it is.
Having no limit on what you can place in 1 country does make bids go down i recon.
24ipc, sure 8 inf in france please. Good luck germany.

Well ok germany will still take it, but hm 8 inf on yunnan could be interesting.
Funny if people give you a huge bid without specifying the rules first, then complain that well you didnt follow the rules, not your fault you both assumed something else.

I would rather have 2 subs and Scotland fighter though. Or sub, destroyer and fighter.

[shadowhawk]

@squirecam said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@shadowhawk said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@squirecam said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@AndrewAAGamer said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@Galendae said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I don’t recommend allowing Allied bids as high as 24.

Ummm, 50 is a reasonable Bid. If people are giving you less than $24 they don’t know what they are doing.

This is not necessarily the case. FTF bids are not $50. Moreover, in other bid systems such as Gencon you can place more than one unit per territory. So a $60 bid could result in 20 inf in France.

It depends a lot on the context and bid system.

Yea most people assume that their bid system is the only way it is.
Having no limit on what you can place in 1 country does make bids go down i recon.
24ipc, sure 8 inf in france please. Good luck germany.

Well ok germany will still take it, but hm 8 inf on yunnan could be interesting.
Funny if people give you a huge bid without specifying the rules first, then complain that well you didnt follow the rules, not your fault you both assumed something else.

I would rather have 2 subs and Scotland fighter though. Or sub, destroyer and fighter.

Was just putting a few bids in. There are many options how about a few bombers with russia, destroy half the japanese fleet round 1 before it moves?
Point was that the bid rules do affect the amount. If someone gives you a bit of 60 without specifying having 20 inf extra on france would basically stop germany in their tracks right away, and give the US a free hand to invest only in the pacific.

[ZiNK]

@Galendae
Hey, trying this out on the player that is dominating our play group. It is Italy’s T1 and I’m not sure how I should proceed. UK 1 did not do Taranto but did take out the Tobruk army . All the UK med fleet is inside the med beside Gibraltar. And they built an airbase. Any thoughts ?

[surfer]

This is a niche strat. The Allies have to make certain actions to allow it to go. Your opponent just made one of the moves that disrupts this tactic. You will not get Gibraltar and not link the German and Italian forces.

The good thing is its T1–early enough that you can adapt. You can continue to pursue a harassment of Atlantic forces with the navy you bought, and press against USSR.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@surfer

Agreed.

[shadowhawk]

@ZiNK said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@Galendae
Hey, trying this out on the player that is dominating our play group. It is Italy’s T1 and I’m not sure how I should proceed. UK 1 did not do Taranto but did take out the Tobruk army . All the UK med fleet is inside the med beside Gibraltar. And they built an airbase. Any thoughts ?

How many planes, and ships are there? can you hit it with italy and mop it up with the germans?
If not you can consolidate your italian fleet. With that UK fleet there unless he loses it against either german or italian ( or combined ) attack dont think this strat is viable anymore.

[ZiNK]

Thanks all for the tips , yeah I need to get better and learn better ways to pivot from strat to strat. I think I’ll just smack it with everything I got and see if we can keep the invasion on schedule .

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@ZiNK

Good luck!

[ZiNK]

Update

I lost , and my friend continues to reign supreme. My opponent pointed out I had a chance to win if I had advanced Italian navy to a couple key spaces. Which would had left opening for the Germans . But I didn’t see the combo . Playing and failing the strategy has really made me a stronger player though. I encourage new players to try it , it will make you more board aware.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@ZiNK

As a semi-experienced player when I first saw this strategy, I can definitely see its merits in the way you describe.

Did you tell your opponent what you were trying to do?

[barnee]

@ZiNK said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I think I’ll just smack it with everything I got

yea absolutely how I’d i do it.

Might not be the best idea, but that’s how I’d do it :)

[kaihlhac]

Why the hate against RL Germans?

And also hi, I played against your strategy today, and first things first, yes, the guy made a few mistakes. But this strat has massive potential, and I will actually sit down and study it and maybe improve it. But still I find there are a lot of assumptions here…

Nobody sees it coming? After the first G and J turn it reeks against the wind and any half way decent Allies player would take preperations and change course. Japan doesnt usually play like this and deliberately closes doors like this with no reason. At least assume that Hawaiian conquest will be forced. Maybe its true that many people auto pilot their buys, but then they are bad players. Every game is different. Also, spam Inf in America? Thats not the solution to the puzzle. Yes, you need lots of land units at one point, but with only inf spam youre vulnerable to big convoy raids, followed by indefinite fleet domination. I would be careful with that. Also, there are alternatives to Taranto, that work in this scenario. For example I played a 92 stack against this. But I admit, Britains first turn was probably the hardest this entire game. Russia will adapt and take Scandinavia and iraq the moment they enter war. I moved the American fleet to the Atlantic once Hawaii was taken (and Japan had brought everything so its impossible to overcome) and I dont see why any American player would not do that if that happens (update below, situational. In this situation it was probably the best to fight the German navy instead of the Japanese). And with 24 bidding the Allies can do a lot of things that can make this way harder (common bid things that are not based on the knowledge that this strategy is being played!).

Anyway, scary strat, will try and study, thanks for the write up.
And don’t get me wrong, I think you’re a good player. For the fact alone that you play and optimise non standard strategies. All I’m saying is basically that given my points and my own experience playing G40 online with people, that I doubt that the level of play online is actually that high. The 90% success rate would surprise me against good players. But that’s why I will test and see how well it can be countered.

[squirecam]

@kaihlhac said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I moved the American fleet to the Atlantic once Hawaii was taken (and Japan had brought everything so its impossible to overcome) and I dont see why any American player would not do that if that happens.

So if Japan gets 4 VC they win. That is Hong Kong, Philippines, Hawaii and Australia. So if you move the US fleet to the Atlantic and build there, what is to stop Japan from going south and taking Australia and winning the game?

[kaihlhac]

@squirecam Me having Manila, Hong Kong and Shanghai. Neglegting China like that comes with a price. Also, it takes 2 turns to get from Hawaii to Sydney. Time enough to come back and take back Hawaii/Build and take back Hawaii.

[ZiNK]

@SuperbattleshipYamato No he had no idea until the very end. Just had strong fundamentals. And I wasn’t very polished , and missing some combos