USA Crush-Turtle or Die

[Galendae]

@SuperbattleshipYamato You would be surprised how many still lose to it, even when they know it is coming. There is some nuance in every game and I am highly adaptable. Still, you are right, this is revealing and only a fool would lose to this knowing it is coming. The cat has been out of the bag for awhile though. Lately, I was springing this, and opponents had seen it or been properly warned. I got everyone I was ever going to get with this over on Triple A. Thus, I finally posted it here. It is a 2 year old strategy, I had my fun with it…the sheer amount of turn 4 wins surprised me.

[shadowhawk]

@Galendae
Its more of a sucker punch that people might overlook. But its really obvious a lot more obvious then the berlin grab that the allies can do.

Its also pretty easy to counter, you need a load of fleet to pull this off but you also need a load of attacking fleet just to get to WUS.
It would only work if the US would focus completely on japan, but since it starts as a sea-lion setup US would be focussing on europe anyway just to make sure.

If the US isnt focussing on europe and leaves itself open against this why travel all the way there? Might as well have a lot less of an investment and take london. Without any fleet the US wont be taking that back any time soon.

Also why the hell would you buy Tanks and mechs if your fighting near your factories?

[Galendae]

@shadowhawk Based on your comment, you would lose to this strat, even knowing it is coming. Also, Sealion is a fool’s errand against good players. You try Sealion against me, I will have Ivan kicking your teeth in.

[TheDesertFox]

@Galendae

Not to mention the fact that the Americans will be on your doorstep to retake London again and then what would you do?

[barnee]

@TheDesertFox said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

and then what would you do?

get his teeth kicked in lol

[AndrewAAGamer]

@Galendae said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I don’t recommend allowing Allied bids as high as 24.

Ummm, 50 is a reasonable Bid. If people are giving you less than $24 they don’t know what they are doing.

[shadowhawk]

@TheDesertFox
If they focus everything on the pacific they will be at least 3 turns away from even being able to attack london.

Thats 3 turns of extra german income, 3 turns for italy to clear out north afrika.

This only works if the US doesnt build enough fleet and not enough forces on the european board. His whole strategy is based on the US focussing 100% of its income in japan and sending every available unit towards japan.

In that scenario you taking london will be impossible to retake in less then 3 turns.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@Galendae

I played a game against myself under the parameters you described, using your strategy (no bid).

Here are the results (apologies for some of the editing confusion, I assure you, overall there were no IPC irregularities):

2024-4-26-World-War-II-Global-1940-2nd-Edition Human.tsvg

While the results were… inconclusive, I think it’s pretty clear (and we can extrapolate) that the US can certainly beat the Axis back if it knows what’s coming while the Soviets can cause some serious damage when it amasses along the border, ready for a strike. Overall I think the Axis weren’t going to win this one.

Still, I was surprised that Japan was as successful as they were, seizing the West Coast twice.

Let me know if you would like a full game report.

[shadowhawk]

@SuperbattleshipYamato

You where either pulling your punches as the allies or just trying to help the axis in that game. I just checked the full game.

You ofcourse did play with prior knowledge of the Axis plans so you did make some moves to prevent that, but maby also tried not to prevent it to hard as normally you dont know the plans of your opponent.

You could easy destroy the German fleet in the atlantic when it was out in the open. You had the naval forces for it. Round 3 or 4 the fleet is in the middle of the atlantic.
That would have destroyed german plans completely and would have prevented any funny things japan was planning.

With that much forces spend on navy germany was doomed from the start, japan as well as they control nearly nothing on the mainland and china is a beast.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@shadowhawk

Yeah, as the Allies I did make some mistakes. Hence my conclusion that the strategy is indeed a no go if your opponent can recognize it.

[squirecam]

@AndrewAAGamer said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@Galendae said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I don’t recommend allowing Allied bids as high as 24.

Ummm, 50 is a reasonable Bid. If people are giving you less than $24 they don’t know what they are doing.

This is not necessarily the case. FTF bids are not $50. Moreover, in other bid systems such as Gencon you can place more than one unit per territory. So a $60 bid could result in 20 inf in France.

It depends a lot on the context and bid system.

[shadowhawk]

@squirecam said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@AndrewAAGamer said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@Galendae said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I don’t recommend allowing Allied bids as high as 24.

Ummm, 50 is a reasonable Bid. If people are giving you less than $24 they don’t know what they are doing.

This is not necessarily the case. FTF bids are not $50. Moreover, in other bid systems such as Gencon you can place more than one unit per territory. So a $60 bid could result in 20 inf in France.

It depends a lot on the context and bid system.

Yea most people assume that their bid system is the only way it is.
Having no limit on what you can place in 1 country does make bids go down i recon.
24ipc, sure 8 inf in france please. Good luck germany.

Well ok germany will still take it, but hm 8 inf on yunnan could be interesting.
Funny if people give you a huge bid without specifying the rules first, then complain that well you didnt follow the rules, not your fault you both assumed something else.

[squirecam]

@shadowhawk said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@squirecam said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@AndrewAAGamer said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@Galendae said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I don’t recommend allowing Allied bids as high as 24.

Ummm, 50 is a reasonable Bid. If people are giving you less than $24 they don’t know what they are doing.

This is not necessarily the case. FTF bids are not $50. Moreover, in other bid systems such as Gencon you can place more than one unit per territory. So a $60 bid could result in 20 inf in France.

It depends a lot on the context and bid system.

Yea most people assume that their bid system is the only way it is.
Having no limit on what you can place in 1 country does make bids go down i recon.
24ipc, sure 8 inf in france please. Good luck germany.

Well ok germany will still take it, but hm 8 inf on yunnan could be interesting.
Funny if people give you a huge bid without specifying the rules first, then complain that well you didnt follow the rules, not your fault you both assumed something else.

I would rather have 2 subs and Scotland fighter though. Or sub, destroyer and fighter.

[shadowhawk]

@squirecam said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@shadowhawk said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@squirecam said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@AndrewAAGamer said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@Galendae said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

I don’t recommend allowing Allied bids as high as 24.

Ummm, 50 is a reasonable Bid. If people are giving you less than $24 they don’t know what they are doing.

This is not necessarily the case. FTF bids are not $50. Moreover, in other bid systems such as Gencon you can place more than one unit per territory. So a $60 bid could result in 20 inf in France.

It depends a lot on the context and bid system.

Yea most people assume that their bid system is the only way it is.
Having no limit on what you can place in 1 country does make bids go down i recon.
24ipc, sure 8 inf in france please. Good luck germany.

Well ok germany will still take it, but hm 8 inf on yunnan could be interesting.
Funny if people give you a huge bid without specifying the rules first, then complain that well you didnt follow the rules, not your fault you both assumed something else.

I would rather have 2 subs and Scotland fighter though. Or sub, destroyer and fighter.

Was just putting a few bids in. There are many options how about a few bombers with russia, destroy half the japanese fleet round 1 before it moves?
Point was that the bid rules do affect the amount. If someone gives you a bit of 60 without specifying having 20 inf extra on france would basically stop germany in their tracks right away, and give the US a free hand to invest only in the pacific.

[ZiNK]

@Galendae
Hey, trying this out on the player that is dominating our play group. It is Italy’s T1 and I’m not sure how I should proceed. UK 1 did not do Taranto but did take out the Tobruk army . All the UK med fleet is inside the med beside Gibraltar. And they built an airbase. Any thoughts ?

[surfer]

This is a niche strat. The Allies have to make certain actions to allow it to go. Your opponent just made one of the moves that disrupts this tactic. You will not get Gibraltar and not link the German and Italian forces.

The good thing is its T1–early enough that you can adapt. You can continue to pursue a harassment of Atlantic forces with the navy you bought, and press against USSR.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@surfer

Agreed.

[shadowhawk]

@ZiNK said in USA Crush-Turtle or Die:

@Galendae
Hey, trying this out on the player that is dominating our play group. It is Italy’s T1 and I’m not sure how I should proceed. UK 1 did not do Taranto but did take out the Tobruk army . All the UK med fleet is inside the med beside Gibraltar. And they built an airbase. Any thoughts ?

How many planes, and ships are there? can you hit it with italy and mop it up with the germans?
If not you can consolidate your italian fleet. With that UK fleet there unless he loses it against either german or italian ( or combined ) attack dont think this strat is viable anymore.

[ZiNK]

Thanks all for the tips , yeah I need to get better and learn better ways to pivot from strat to strat. I think I’ll just smack it with everything I got and see if we can keep the invasion on schedule .

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@ZiNK

Good luck!