Which are the most useless techs, 4 votes per person.
If I gave you guys just 1 vote, it would 90% for super subs, so instead I am giving you 4 votes so that hopefully we will get a little bit of a spread.
In case you don’t know what the tech does:
Adv Art = increases attack of 2 infantry to 2 each, instead of just 1 inf.
Rockets = bomb an enemy industrial complex with 1d6 per rocket, per territory, per turn
Paratroopers = use your bombers to bring in infantry to an attack, bomber still gets to attack that territory, must drop off and attack first enemy territory you come to
Increased Factory Production = each of your IC in a territory worth 3 or more, can produce 2 more units. in addition you can remove 2 damage markers for the price of one
War Bonds = collect 1d6 during collect income phase
Mechanized Inf = each inf matched with a tank can move 2 spaces along with that tank
Super Subs = subs attack at 3 instead of 2
Jet Fighters = ftrs attack at 4 instead of 3
Improved Shipyards = sea units are now cheaper for you: BB17, CV11, CC10, DD7, Trans6, Sub5
Radar = your AA guns hit on a 2 instead of 1
Long Range Aircraft = ftrs now move 6, bombers 8
Heavy Bombers = your bombers now automatically make your opponent concede (roll 2 dice for each)
War bonds…bleh. Super subs a close second (except for the US).
The most useless technology is very situational, as some countries can use certain techs which are nearly worthless for other countries.
That said, I choose the following for the following reasons.
1. Advanced Artillery - Most countries can not utilize it well. And the other techs are just plain funner.
2. War Bonds - Not exciting to get. Useful, just boring.
3. Super Subs - only useful in the long run to Japan and America, and only in the Pacific.
4. Radar - Not exciting to get, and not all countries can utilize it well.
War bonds is one the worst ideas in the history of A&A, maybe even the worst
Depends:
USSR: Improved Shipyards :-D
UK: usually Super Subs, but can be good in some 1942 scenario games when west axis goes fleet heavy
USA: Radar
Germany: none, even super subs can work at openings and 1942 scenario
Japan: none, even Radar has some use in India/Persia
Italy: none, all are useful
warbonds - nice to have, but i always forget to roll for it. and when i do remember, i roll a 2. :x
I actually like war bonds. It’s like Anti-Rockets technology.
Improved Shipyards seems to be the most worthless for a few reasons:
1) You generally get it after you have built the main portion of your fleet (and sometimes after you are done building fleet entirely.)
2) We’re reducing the price of expensive pieces by 1 IPC. Not a huge boon if you ask me. “Yay! You sunk my 19 IPC battleship and I sunk your 20 IPC battleship! I’m going to win now!” Sorry, just cannot ever see that conversation taking place, like, ever!
You know what would be cool, because some of these techs really really suck for certain powers, why not have a couple of them be “Your Choice techs”
The list will still be 12 techs long, but….
if you get either War Bonds or Rockets, you can choose one of them.
if you get either Adv Artillery or Improved Shipyards, you can choose one of them.
if you get either Super Subs or Radar, you can choose one of them.
Example:
you get a six for your research roll which means you get to roll for a tech, you choose to roll for the 1st chart (land), and you roll a 2. Now you can decide to take either rockets or war bonds.
the new list would look like:
Adv Art = increases attack of 2 infantry to 2 each, instead of just 1 inf, OR sea units are now cheaper for you (pick one only)
Rockets / War Bonds = bomb an enemy industrial complex with 1d6 per rocket, per territory, per turn, OR collect 1d6 during collect income phase (pick one only)
Paratroopers = use your bombers to bring in infantry to an attack, bomber still gets to attack that territory, must drop off and attack first enemy territory you come to
Increased Factory Production = each of your IC in a territory worth 3 or more, can produce 2 more units. in addition you can remove 2 damage markers for the price of one
War Bonds / Rockets = collect 1d6 during collect income phase, OR bomb an enemy industrial complex with 1d6 per rocket, per territory, per turn (pick one only)
Mechanized Inf = each inf matched with a tank can move 2 spaces along with that tank
Super Subs / Radar = subs attack at 3 instead of 2 and Sub cost 1 less, OR your AA guns hit on a 2 instead of 1 (pick one only)
Jet Fighters = ftrs attack at 4 instead of 3
Improved Shipyards / Advanced Artillery= sea units are now cheaper for you: BB17, CV11, CC10, DD7, Trans6, Sub5, OR increases attack of 2 infantry to 2 each, instead of just 1 inf. (pick one only)
Radar / Super Subs = your AA guns hit on a 2 instead of 1, OR your subs attack on 3 instead of 2 (pick one only)
Long Range Aircraft = ftrs now move 6, bombers 8
Heavy Bombers = Larry Harris Tourny Rules: roll two dice, pick the higher of the two, if it SBR add one. (or alternatively, Heavy Bombers now attack on a 6 with just one dice, SBR same as LHTR, roll 2 dice, pick higher, add one)
I kind of like that idea, but we could drop it to 6 easily enough.
If you get a technology, you roll a die. You may apply the result to either of the two charts (or re-roll if you have both of the chart technologies already.)
Being able to build infrastructure is whats missing in Axis and Allies. Getting 3 ipc’s a turn, or an automatic unit a turn per Complex works extremely well and really brings the game to the next level. Without overcomplicating it.
Tech is, and always will be, just a sideshow in Axis and Allies.
Worst tech, Radar with Japan. you’ll never build another aa gun, and if the allies are smart, they wont be giving up many of theirs.
Radar, Artillery, and to some extent Super Subs.
Radar: Could be useful to Germany or Russia but they would almost never roll from chart 2.
Artillery: Gotten it a couple of times, but it was never of much use. Probably the most useless of the bunch.
Super Subs: Nice to have, but easily negated with DD. If it made them defend at 2 it would be more useful.
My take on other least favorite techs:
War Bonds: Wouldn’t be my first choice but over time it’s helpful especially for UK.
Shipyards: If you don’t get them early, their usefullness is not that great, except in the pacific if there is a naval arms race between Japan and US.
Advanced Artillery - good for russia and perhaps uk. the germans and the japanese need speed (tanks and planes) often, so not much benefit there. rest no real benefits in a typical game
Rockets - okay for uk and germany as there often is a couple of nice targets within range. for the rest it is crap
Paratroopers - very good for any country I would say. especially for germany, russia and uk. germany with early game paratroopers can be a real nightmare.
Increased Factory Production - good for germany (cheap factory repair is also very good for the germans), uk, and an expanding japan with many factories with 3 ipc production or more.
War Bonds - middle of the road tech even for all
Mechanized Infantry - monster tech for japan, germany and russia. crap for rest
Super Submarines germany round 1 or a naval building germany perhaps. and the good for US and japan and perhaps i rare cases italy if they can go around threatning the uk navy
Jet Fighters - nice for nations with many fighters - simple as that.
Improved Shipyards - naval building germany, UK in first or second round and then japan and us
Radar - germany no doubt; especially when us and/or uk bomb tha s… out of them. second favorites are uk, russia and italy.
Long-Range Aircraft - major benefit for germany when not throwing too many planes away in round 1-2, otherwise US and japan benefit alot from this tech. US can potentially bomb germany directly from washigton if norway or finland is in secure allied hands
Heavy Bombers - leathal for any nation. but in relation to economy and general play role the us a leathal to europe axis and any potential navies in range - japanese or italien doesn’t matter. Combined with LRA its an almost gamewinner unless achieved very late in the game.
So conclusion:
edit: supersubs are also a candidate, but forgot them in my summary and could easily be substituted with e.g. adv art as my first choice, but again not much difference probably.
in any case, my top 4 are
heavy bombers (no contest)
mechanised infantery
long range airplanes
paratroopers
increased factory production
rest is much more middle of the road IMO in a “standard game”
I ended up picking:
Super Subs
Adv Artillery
Radar
Improved Shipyards
War Bonds
Rockets
in that order (so only the first 4 showed up in the poll)
@Cmdr:
I actually like war bonds. It’s like Anti-Rockets technology.
Improved Shipyards seems to be the most worthless for a few reasons:
You generally get it after you have built the main portion of your fleet (and sometimes after you are done building fleet entirely.)
We’re reducing the price of expensive pieces by 1 IPC. Not a huge boon if you ask me. “Yay! You sunk my 19 IPC battleship and I sunk your 20 IPC battleship! I’m going to win now!” Sorry, just cannot ever see that conversation taking place, like, ever!
I agree with point #1, somewhat.
But for point #2, the savings are 3ipc for BB and AC! :-) 2ipc for CA.
(1IPC for the 3 cheap vessels.)
I do have to admit that Paratroopers technology is perhaps the most under appreciated technology on the charts. I don’t think many players fully comprehend the utility of paratroopers in the grand scheme of things.
You can use them for island hoping, for sniping under-protected territories for additional income (territory and sometimes national objectives), you can use them to augment attacks where you don’t quite have the manpower and would like more infantry, etc, etc, etc. Meanwhile, you can still use the bomber in the attack, which is REALLY nice! Some incarnations in the past said the bomber EITHER bombed OR hauled paratroopers making the paratrooper ability pretty useless.
None of the techs are useless if you know how to use them right. I have found that all of them contribute to the many different ways to play this game.
This is all situational, and certainly varies on avg from country to country.
On Avg (for 41 w/ NO’s):
Ger: Improved shipyards. Unless you get Improved shipyards on T1 I see little value for it.
USSR: Supersubs/improved shipyards. If I had to chose the better tech, improved shipyards at least gives you a little more flexability
Japan: Adv Art/Rockets/Radar. They are in too remote a location for any of these techs to be amazing.
UK: Supersubs/Mech Inf. The only techs the UK can’t utilize that will be a major boon in most of my games. If I had to pick though Supersubs is worse on avg, particularly if I have a factory in SAF for the UK.
Italy: Adv Art. Italy’s 1 transport ship kind of hurts this tech, but still a fairly nifty tech for the Italians.
US: Rockets, Inc Fact Prod, Mech Inf, Radar: All of these techs can be of marginal use to the US due to the location and nature of the US. The worst though would probably have to be radar though.
On avg I am of the opinion that the overall worst tech would probably be supersubs: they have no use for Russia, little use for the UK, and mediocre use for US, Ger, Japan. Italy however could have some fun with them.
Honestly… SuperSubs suck so much. Here are a couple things that could be done to make supersubs better:
Attack at 3, defend at 2 (simplest solution, but might be too powerful, thought I doubt it would still be more powerful than heavy bombers, or paratroopers,etc.)
Attack at 3, defend at 1, cost 1 less (so they would cost 5 instead of 6 normally, or 4 instead of 5 if you also have improved shipyards)
Attack at 3, defend at 1, may hit airplanes, and may be hit by airplanes unless user chooses to submerge them (could be interesting)
Attack at 3, defend at 1, unaffected by destroyers (may pass under destroyers, may submerge from destroyers, destroyers do not take away 1st strike ability)
Attack at 2, defend at 2, cost 2 less (so they would cost 4 instead of 6 normally, or 3 instead of 5 if you also have improved shipyards)
And lastly, Any combination of the above.
What could make Adv Artillery better? Or at least more interesting?
Instead of upping the attack power of one extra infantry, Adv Artillery may now be used to “bombard” an adjoining territory. This uses up the movement points of the artillery, so you can not also attack with the artillery after you bombard. Works just like a Naval Bombardment except you do not need to attack the territory you are bombarding to be able to bombard it with Adv Art. (example, germany has 2 artillery in Ukraine, and 2 artillery in the Baltic States, Russia has infantry in Karelia and the Caucasus. Germany decides to bombard both Karelia and the Caucasus with its artillery, and also attack Karelia with 5 tanks, but not attack Caucasus. Germany rolls double snake eyes. 2 russian inf in caucasus die immediately since there is no attack there. in Karelia, Russia moves 2 infantry to the casualty space, where they will still get their rebuttal against the german tanks. Now the german tanks and russian infantry get to roll the rest of their battle.)
War Bonds is boring and not very useful, while Rockets is a bit more interesting because you can purchase additional AA guns / Rockets (AA guns should cost 5 each again). War bonds could be made more interesting by allowing the person who own’s war bonds to purchase additional War Bond dice for 8 IPCs each (takes 2+ turns to pay back). (Germany gets war bonds on a research roll. Next turn, they choose to purchase 2 additional war bond dice for 16 ipcs total. at the end of their turn they will be rolling 3 total war bond dice, at 1d6 each, to determine total money received)
Improved Shipyards is crap if you are past the 2nd turn and are not the USA and you are not attacking Japan. That is a lot of IFs, which means Impr Shipyards sucks. How about this, when you get Impr Shipyards, you ALSO get a free Carrier next to your factory at the end of the turn? That might convince, say, germany to try it out.
Radar is useful only for Germany, Italy, and Russia. And 2 of those will never ever be able to afford researcher dice, so that means Radar is only useful for Germany. How about this: Radar also improves the defense of Carriers by 1. Or alternatively, Improves the range of all Fighters you control, that began their turn on a Carrier you control, by 1-2 (5-6 movement points instead of 4). Or another alternative, all your cruisers or carriers also count as an AA gun, so they get to take an AA shot at the beginning of battle (limited to 1 per territory, just like aa guns). Or another alternative, America starts with this tech that way they never have to worry about getting the most useless tech for them.
I don’t get the hate for Adv Artillary. For the US/UK it is a wonderful money saver and probably more useful than mech inf in the long haul being that the majority of your land forces are just being used for amphibious assaults. For Russia it is probably more useful than long range airplanes It is good for any allied power, but kind of worthless for any Axis power.
I would also say that Germany could probably use super subs liberaly to put decent pressure on allied shipping. You have something that attacks way better than a fighter and ignores enemy airplanes so it can get to the transport ships quickly all while being 4 IPC’s cheaper. I’m not saying it’s a game breaking tech for Germany, but still I can see the use. Really I would rather have super subs with Germany or Italy than Japan.
Also the UK starts off with 3 AA’s, that alone makes radar not worthless for the UK. 2 US fighters on Australia, and a stiff defense in Persia and all the sudden you may stall Japan for an extra turn or two more than you would have normally. Also, I am used to the German bomber(s) being on france to put pressure on allied shipping, when they aren’t being used for an attack I am used to seeing the UK get bombed; radar would end that. Once again, not game breaking, but hardly worthless for the UK.
As for warbonds, i don’t see how extra cash to spend could ever be considerd a bad thing. This is the most flexible tech out there. That being said if you spent 30+ IPC’s to get it, I could see how it wouldn’t pay off.
Also whoever said paratroopers were underated: anyone who finds it a useless tech/ non game changing concept ought to re evaluate this tech. Paratroopers can make everywhere in the world (except europe) your personal playground, this can change the entire landscape and strat of everyone once this tech is recieved by any power. I do think it benefits Russia the least, simply for the fact that Russia would have to buy a bomber it may not be able to afford.
I voted based on “how many powers would make use this tech if they got it”, and came up with in no particular order:
#1 Super Subs
#2 Ship Yards
#3 Paratroopers
#4 Radar
I can see an application for all the air tech for any power; as for War Bonds, every single nation can make use of them and see some gain, so I can’t see how they make the list of “the worst”
