Tutor game: trulpen (X) vs Avner [and everyone else] (A+23) BM3

[trulpen]

@Avner suggested to start a new tutor game. I can take on the shoes of the expert, even though I know there are better candidates.

My suggestion is that I play Axis and that Allies get a bid of 20. What I know that’s the main bid-level atm.

Bombers cost 14. Inf on NG is allowed.

[Avner]

ok

I hope I have the right map for bmb a 14

[trulpen]

I think it will be if I start it.

[trulpen]

I think we should proceed in the same manner as in the game with Andrew. You discuss with your fellows openly and I comment after you’ve decided upon and executed a turn as well as after my own turns. Can’t promise I’ll be as stringent and thorough as Andrew, but I’ll try my best.

So it’s time to start and discuss bid placement. It’s no problem if it takes a couple of days. People need a chance to hook up.

[Avner]

ok we see it. I have never played with the 14 version.

let’s take it easy there is also the League

for the offer I think about it…

[trulpen]

No time limits. Just look at the other game… ;)

[crockett36]

@trulpen hey I just saw this and would like to be involved. Would you all consider oob and the bid gargantuan has suggested: 3 fighters on front line and 6 mechanics east of Moscow?

[oysteilo]

since this is a tutor game i am throwing in my 2 cents here. If you play OOB with a healthy bid at least +50.

Priority 1: stack Yunnan R1. Bid: 1 chinese inf and 2 russian fighters (moscow and stalingrad) 23 ipc

Priority 2: fighter scotland and sub 110. This makes it too risky to take out both british fleets 110 and 111. Now we are at 39 ipc total

Personally i would also place sub in egypt sz and maybe also in gibraltar and canada. Here you might have other priorities and place men in eastern USSR, but really I dont see the need for more than 2 artillary to team up with the 18 russians +2 AA

For BM at 20:

french inf to normandy (makes vichy more complicated)
fighter scotland
sub egypt
1 ipc to india

[trulpen]

@crockett36 said in Tutor game: trulpen (X) vs Avner [and everyone else] (A+20) BM3:

@trulpen hey I just saw this and would like to be involved. Would you all consider oob and the bid gargantuan has suggested: 3 fighters on front line and 6 mechanics east of Moscow?

It can be considered, but I’m not very good with OOB. I’d say Andrew is the expert there, so I’d prefer a mod for this game.

I like the idea of a Yunnan stack. It’s loads of pain for Japan. Think 1 fig in Moscow and 1 fig in Stalingrad would be sufficient along with boosting the chinese and maybe Siberia with some art.

[Avner]

here I am (the weekend are not very operational)

I would say to try in the BM3 version

As a BID I usually assign it to the UK…

Definitely a fig in Scotland and a sub in sz 98… There remains room for an artillery in Sudan (to eliminate the Duke of Aosta from the Duce’s undertaking).

[Avner]

@oysteilo

Indeed, the alternative is to make it difficult for vichy and 1 ipc … India…

but perhaps it is a priority to eliminate the Italians quickly?

[Avner]

basically … I would go like this :)

[crockett36]

So I am not into balanced mod, but if you all explain the strategic differences when those differences make a differences, then I’m in.

[trulpen]

@crockett36 said in Tutor game: trulpen (X) vs Avner [and everyone else] (A+20) BM3:

So I am not into balanced mod, but if you all explain the strategic differences when those differences make a differences, then I’m in.

If you follow this game, I think you’ll learn. :)

Basically there are a few more NOs for both sides, but with a bit of boost for the Allies. Russia is much stronger, mainly because of getting a solid 3 IPC every turn if no other allied units are in its homeland. Then there’ll usually be 2-4 IPC extra because of lend lease (z125/Archangel, z5/Amur, z80/Persia).

The midgits UK-Pac and ANZAC also get a clear boost, which Japan has to go out of its way to hamper.

The Vichy rules are a nice addition, as are the rules regarding DOW between Japan and Russia. Simply put enacting Vichy will help out Italy a lot short term, but will give the Allies earlier french territories for income later on. The DOW-situation is that if Japan DOWs Russia will get and extra 2 IPC per open lend lease lane. If Russia DOWs that extra income will never happen. The rules regarding conversion of Mongolia are the same.

Another great change is that an Axis power have to have DOWed on Russia in order to enter russian territory. No sneaky Italy scouts. Just as how it is with Japan and China.

One of the best changes from OOB is however that figs fight @2 during air-battles. It makes protection against SBR a lot more feasible. In OOB building figs with the purpose of dissuading SBR is just lame. In BM3 it actually makes sense. As is getting in escorts for the bombers.

What else? No, I think that is about it.

[trulpen]

I remembered one thing more. There are chinese guerilla. Japan needs to have atleast one land unit with fighting power (not aa then) in a non-coastal chinese territory or 1 inf will be spawned. This will battle against i e present air. If the inf wins, the territory converts to chinese control. This inf can of course not move during NCM, but is viable for the next turn. A sneaky, but risky move, is to attack such territories with american air, thereby spawning chinese units. Can be costly, but might also very well be worth it considering Japans usual difficulty of putting forth land units in Asia. In OOB China can be more or less empty and Japan has a pretty easy task to suppress them.

[oysteilo]

@avner said in Tutor game: trulpen (X) vs Avner [and everyone else] (A+20) BM3:

here I am (the weekend are not very operational)

I would say to try in the BM3 version

As a BID I usually assign it to the UK…

Definitely a fig in Scotland and a sub in sz 98… There remains room for an artillery in Sudan (to eliminate the Duke of Aosta from the Duce’s undertaking).

I think this is as good as it gets, but we need more brainpower if we are going to have a chance against trulpens navy buy with germany and italy. A bid of 20 is probably not enough

[trulpen]

It’s very possible to make the bid higher. My main intention here is that we all shall have a good learning run. For me it won’t be competitive, but rather (hopefully) interesting.

[FlyingBadger]

I like the idea of giving all the bid to the Brits :flag-gb:. Helping against the G1 attacks on the Royal Navy and maybe also helping Russia by taking some German planes down. Also units to boost the attacks on the Italian navy (if the Taranto raid is part of the plan?) in the Med and troops in Africa. I feel a UK bid gives the best value and helps the Allies immediately and hopefully throughout the game, but what are the alternative bids and accompanying strategies?

Are there any tried and tested use of bids for the Chinese or UK Pacific to help against Japan?

Does anyone give serious help to the French and does this force the Germans to reduce their attacks on the Royal Navy?

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

First comment: a bid of A+21 is now common for BM3 games among equal opponents. I would suggest something in the vicinity of A+30 since Avner has less experience.

You will want to have units that are very impactful in the first round. An infantry in NG is the best bang for the buck of any bid and is a no-brainer under these rules.

That leaves 17 points in this bid. I highly recommend a fighter in Scotland as it makes it very difficult for the Germans to sink all of the Atlantic fleets. That would be 10 points.

A marine in India is extremely useful as it can take Sumatra or another money island on round 1 with the cruiser, leading to a 4 point gain and maybe giving the Japanese a headache. Also could consider a marine in New Zealand to break some bonuses. That would be 5 points.

A sub in SZ91 or 106 is enormously helpful in keeping those fleets alive and counter attacking on the first round. I would favor 106 if you only chose one of those.

[surfer]

Just my $0.02. For $20, I would put 1 ftr in Scotland (defends fleet), a sub in SZ 96 (for Taranto), 1 inf in NG, and $1 to India. I’ve never played with the rule to allow NG placement, but I can see the advantage.

The only concern will be that this bid is against a typical opponent, i.e., Germans focused on Russia. And since this is a learning game perhaps that is just as good as can be made.

However, just for the record, @trulpen has a preference for a large German fleet to prevent any Western beach head plus if allowed to grow unchecked, will dominate the Med and prevent US build ups.

To counter that strategy, the Allies have three goals: a) save as much of the British fleet Turn 1 as possible to allow them to unite with the US, b) build the US navy in the Atlantic to force a naval arms race, and c) play somewhat loosely with the Russians because the Germans will not be able to spend as much on Barbarosa.

Saving the fleet means 1 ftr in Scotland a must bid
I’m not sure how to spend the remaining 10.

Taranto is a good (but not great) counter, because the aircraft that leave London, coupled with the German naval buy, make Sea Lion a possibility. Most people would say that early sea lion is a loser, but @trulpen is too crafty for that. He will simply threaten sea lion and continue to build. The result is that the UK continually has to defend London and cannot focus on the Middle East.

I think I would support a Gibbastion like move UK1 so that the Allies have naval superiority in the Atlantic. The concern is that the BM3/4 + Vichy can make Italy a real threat early in the game. If they threaten Egypt, then Gibbastion is not so good.
Thus, I would add 2 units to support Egypt. I would add 3, but 1 inf in NG is so yummy that hard to turn down.