League General Discussion Thread

[ksmckay]

@owentoo said in League General Discussion Thread:

@ksmckay As Tizkit said in his post, that the playoffs are the most enticing part of the league, and if that is so, and players know there will be a OOB G40 playoff, then likely there will be far more than 16 OOB league games played by Dec 2021, as players that want to play that version prep and prepare for the playoff.

Players knew there would be an OOB playoff this year since it is/was the default. Same as the last few years when the number of OOB games was just a fraction of the number of BM3 games.

[OwenToo]

@ksmckay Well, that may be true. We shall see. What is for sure is that the default needs to change, or be eliminated…

[regularkid]

Is there really enough interest to support separate playoffs for all three? I doubt it. Keeping the playoffs unified with a default map (probably the most played map from that year) prevents fracturing and ensures a robust pool of players. Also maintains the prestige of a single title of “league champion” rather than a bunch of mini titles that were contested by only a smattering of people.

Each game is different, but as others have state, the skillset you use to win is largely transferable between them–justifying a single title.

For this reason I support Gamerman’s proposal. Three separate standings. One end-of-year tourney.

[gamerman01]

Brilliant points -

I am liking the idea of a different threshhold of games required for the “league champion” for each version, with it remaining at 8 for BM, and to be evaluated later in the year (like July 1 plus or minus a couple months) for OOB and P2V. It might be 5 for those, but will be much easier to set an appropriate threshhold after months of results.

Don’t forget, the threshhold for participating in playoffs is only 3 games - you just can’t compete in the top, official championship one.

In other words, I don’t want it so that someone could play, say, 3 games of OOB, 3 games of P2V, and 3 games of BM and then compete in all 3 of the “main” or “1st tier” or “official” playoff at the top. But that player could compete in the 2nd level playoffs in all 3 games. I’m putting my thoughts out there because you can change my mind, but I’m telling you what I’m leaning towards now.

I know some of you don’t want to miss out on anything, but I don’t like the idea of a low threshhold for getting into the main playoffs. I can be convinced to go down to 5, especially for OOB, depending on how many games we see played in the coming months, but I would resist going any lower than that. The low requirement of 3 games per version for participating in playoffs, but not eligible for the top one in each version, will definitely remain.

[ksmckay]

@regularkid said in League General Discussion Thread:

Is there really enough interest to support separate playoffs for all three? I doubt it. Keeping the playoffs unified with a default map (probably the most played map from that year) prevents fracturing and ensures a robust pool of players. Also maintains the prestige of a single title of “league champion” rather than a bunch of mini titles that were contested by only a smattering of people.

Each game is different, but as others have state, the skillset you use to win is largely transferable between them–justifying a single title.

For this reason I support Gamerman’s proposal. Three separate standings. One end-of-year tourney.

I think you are misinterpretting things. Nobody is advocating for what you are saying . Thats basically what we have now and is a big problem.

[gamerman01]

@regularkid said in League General Discussion Thread:

Is there really enough interest to support separate playoffs for all three? I doubt it. Keeping the playoffs unified with a default map (probably the most played map from that year) prevents fracturing and ensures a robust pool of players. Also maintains the prestige of a single title of “league champion” rather than a bunch of mini titles that were contested by only a smattering of people.

Each game is different, but as others have state, the skillset you use to win is largely transferable between them–justifying a single title.

For this reason I support Gamerman’s proposal. Three separate standings. One end-of-year tourney.

Actually, I think we do have the players and the interest to support a separate playoff by version, which is what I’m strongly leaning towards. The least amount of games would probably be OOB, but I think there will be more games of OOB played in league than in years because it will be separated out for 2021. We will assess the # of games completed in each version mid-way through the year before setting main playoff requirements

[regularkid]

@ksmckay perhaps I misunderstood. I thought the problem was that the “default” game of for the playoffs was out of line with what a majority of people prefer to play (which is solved by making the default game the one that most people play). What I’m saying is that one championship is preferable to three, even if you maintain separate statistics for each version of the game.

[gamerman01]

@regularkid said in League General Discussion Thread:

@ksmckay perhaps I misunderstood. I thought the problem was that the “default” game of for the playoffs was out of line with what a majority of people prefer to play (which is solved by making the default game the one that most people play). What I’m saying is that one championship is preferable to three, even if you maintain separate statistics for each version of the game.

I agree one championship is preferable, and we’ve stuck to that for years, but 2021 needs to be the year of 3 championships. I can keep the prestige - perhaps I could note in the annals how many ranked players there were during the year for that version, or how many games total were played by version, near the champion’s name. That’s just off the top of my head - point being, there are ways to not make the champion of a small pond look equal to the champion of the ocean

[regularkid]

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

Actually, I think we do have the players and the interest to support a separate playoff by version

I gotcha. Well as the keeper of the books, you’'d probably be in a better position to judge that sort of thing. I have my doubts.

[ksmckay]

@regularkid said in League General Discussion Thread:

@ksmckay perhaps I misunderstood. I thought the problem was that the “default” game of for the playoffs was out of line with what a majority of people prefer to play (which is solved by making the default game the one that most people play). What I’m saying is that one championship is preferable to three, even if you maintain separate statistics for each version of the game.

Its been a long discussion and while I personally agree with that approach, there are dissenting arguments with merit and so the latest proposal by gamerman is a compromise.

[regularkid]

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

point being, there are ways to not make the champion of a small pond look equal to the champion of the ocean

Well its not so much about that. Rather, I think playoffs generate excitement, in part, because people want the singular title of “league champion.” One big, end of year event for the entire community. Rather than balkanized proceedings.

[ksmckay]

@regularkid said in League General Discussion Thread:

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

point being, there are ways to not make the champion of a small pond look equal to the champion of the ocean

Well its not so much about that. Rather, I think playoffs generate excitement, in part, because people want the singular title of “league champion.” One big, end of year event for the entire community. Rather than balkanized proceedings.

Unfortunately you would have to read through a couple hundred posts to get a picture of the entire argument. The new proposal does its best to include every potential player’s desires whereas what you are saying (similar to what we have now) excludes some preferences. If we just changed to BM default, then that would exclude people who prefer OOB (even if thats a small number in this community, it still excludes them).

[Colt45554]

Is the initial maximum games allowed vs one opponent still 3 with these playoff-qualification tweaks?

[regularkid]

I see what you mean.

@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:

@regularkid said in League General Discussion Thread:

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

point being, there are ways to not make the champion of a small pond look equal to the champion of the ocean

Well its not so much about that. Rather, I think playoffs generate excitement, in part, because people want the singular title of “league champion.” One big, end of year event for the entire community. Rather than balkanized proceedings.

Unfortunately you would have to read through a couple hundred posts to get a picture of the entire argument. The new proposal does its best to include every potential player’s desires whereas what you are saying (similar to what we have now) excludes some preferences. If we just changed to BM default, then that would exclude people who prefer OOB (even if thats a small number in this community, it still excludes them).

[majikforce]

Good discussion. One that needed to be had. But on a side note the more playoffs there are the longer it will take to crown a champ. The playoffs already take quite some time. And being crowned a 2021 champion when its almost 2023 loses a little something in my book.

[ksmckay]

@majikforce said in League General Discussion Thread:

Good discussion. One that needed to be had. But on a side note the more playoffs there are the longer it will take to crown a champ. The playoffs already take quite some time. And being crowned a 2021 champion when its almost 2023 loses a little something in my book.

Dont think that makes any sense. Still a best of 8 which is no change from what we have now. Playoffs are usually over by middle of the year (3 games).

[Amon-Sul]

@regularkid said in League General Discussion Thread:

Is there really enough interest to support separate playoffs for all three? I doubt it. Keeping the playoffs unified with a default map (probably the most played map from that year) prevents fracturing and ensures a robust pool of players. Also maintains the prestige of a single title of “league champion” rather than a bunch of mini titles that were contested by only a smattering of people.

Each game is different, but as others have state, the skillset you use to win is largely transferable between them–justifying a single title.

For this reason I support Gamerman’s proposal. Three separate standings. One end-of-year tourney.

3 standings, 1 play off?

then why do u need 3 standings at all?

[OwenToo]

@amon-sul 3 standings, 3 playoffs

[Amon-Sul]

@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:

@majikforce said in League General Discussion Thread:

Good discussion. One that needed to be had. But on a side note the more playoffs there are the longer it will take to crown a champ. The playoffs already take quite some time. And being crowned a 2021 champion when its almost 2023 loses a little something in my book.

Dont think that makes any sense. Still a best of 8 which is no change from what we have now. Playoffs are usually over by middle of the year (3 games).

yeah, even if u participate in 2 or 3 play offs, u play ur games at the same time, and more or less with the same pace. so no time problem here

[majikforce]

@amon-sul @ksmckay Don’t necessarily agree especially if you are playing in one or more playoffs. I would tend to think it would be a slower pace. But only time will tell.