L20 #2 trulpen (X) vs aagamerz13 (A+17) BM3

[Krieghund]

It’s hard to piece together exactly what the question is here from the conversation, but I think the question is whether or not a transport can load in a sea zone containing an enemy sub and then move to another sea zone to make an amphibious assault if other units are attacking the sub. The answer to that question is “yes”. Attacking the sub does not make the sea zone hostile, so it does not impede the movement of the transport.

[trulpen]

Oh, my, then I’ve been deluded and played it wrong for a while. Good to correct.

@aagamerz13, since this seems to be the case I’d like to be able to put the sub elsewhere. Hope that’s ok.

[aagamerz13]

@trulpen yes edit it

[ksmckay]

@trulpen said in L20 #2 trulpen (X) vs aagamerz13 (A+17) BM3:

I don’t find a clear answer, but to my experience it’s only legal if you abstain from attacking the sub. We have to resolve this so there’s no doubt.

I’ll add @JDOW, @regularkid and @Krieghund to the list of potential helping hands.

The situation you are probably confusing this with is when you want to do a NCM with the transports. If you were interested in a NCM with the transports and you wanted them to leave the sea zone that is not legal as you cant load units into a transport during CM unless those units are being used in amphib assault. So in that case the transport can move during CM and the sub could be attacked but the transport couldnt load anything that turn. Or the transport could stay in the sea zone, be a participant in the CM and then not be used for NCM. Or you could ignore sub and conduct NCM with transport.

This is a case of CM with the transport so its a different situation as loading units onto the transport for combat during CM phase is legal.

[trulpen]

Yes, that sounds about right. It’s like the situation in the early game when Germany puts a sub or two in z101 and then the US enters into war. Then they can’t grab Brazil by NCM if they attack the sub(s).

Ok, issue resolved. Thanks!

[trulpen]

@aagamerz13 said in L20 #2 trulpen (X) vs aagamerz13 (A+17) BM3:

@trulpen yes edit it

Thanks!

I’ll put it in z15 then.

[trulpenplay]

TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 9

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 9

    Purchase Units - Japanese
        Japanese buy 2 artilleries, 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 9 infantry, 1 submarine and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 

    Combat Move - Japanese
        1 infantry moved from Aleutian Islands to 8 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 8 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 25 Sea Zone to Midway
        1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 31 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 31 Sea Zone to Wake Island
        1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
        1 submarine moved from 45 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
        2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 45 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 38 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 38 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
        2 bombers moved from Kweichow to 39 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 45 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone

    Combat - Japanese
        Battle in Hawaiian Islands
        Battle in Midway
        Battle in Wake Island
        Battle in 46 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 5 fighters, 1 submarine and 4 tactical_bombers
            ANZAC defend with 1 cruiser
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 46 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 5 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers in 46 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/9 hits, 5,17 expected hits
                ANZAC roll dice for 1 cruiser in 46 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,50 expected hits
                1 cruiser owned by the ANZAC and 1 submarine owned by the Japanese lost in 46 Sea Zone
            Japanese win, taking Hawaiian Islands from Americans, taking Midway from Americans, taking Wake Island from Americans with 5 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 submarine
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 cruiser
        Battle in 39 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
            British defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 39 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 2 bombers, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber in 39 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 2,50 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 destroyer in 39 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the British lost in 39 Sea Zone
            Japanese win, taking 39 Sea Zone from UK_Pacific with 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for British: 1 destroyer

    Non Combat Move - Japanese
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 39 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        2 bombers moved from 39 Sea Zone to Burma
        3 infantry moved from Shan State to Burma
        1 transport moved from 38 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Malaya to 37 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 37 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Dutch New Guinea to 45 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 45 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 battleship, 6 carriers, 4 destroyers and 1 submarine moved from 45 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 battleship and 1 marine moved from 45 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        5 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from 46 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Amur to 25 Sea Zone
        1 marine moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        1 marine moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        2 cruisers and 2 marines moved from 6 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 1 Sea Zone to 10 Sea Zone
        1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 2 submarines moved from 8 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 8 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
        1 carrier and 1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Malaya to Shan State
        1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Yunnan to Burma
        2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan
        1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Kansu
        1 infantry moved from Chahar to Suiyuyan
        1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Chahar
        1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Hopei
        1 infantry moved from Hopei to Shensi
        1 infantry moved from Kansu to Tsinghai
        1 infantry moved from Tsinghai to Sikang
        1 infantry moved from Sikang to Szechwan
        1 artillery moved from Szechwan to Yunnan
        1 artillery moved from Kweichow to Yunnan
        1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Kweichow
        1 mech_infantry moved from Shensi to Yunnan
        3 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe
        1 infantry moved from Sakha to Amur
        1 submarine moved from 38 Sea Zone to 78 Sea Zone
        1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 38 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 25 Sea Zone to Midway

    Place Units - Japanese
        1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 2 transports placed in 6 Sea Zone
        2 artilleries placed in Japan
        3 infantry placed in Shantung
        3 infantry placed in French Indo China
        3 infantry placed in Malaya

    Turn Complete - Japanese
        Japanese collect 72 PUs; end with 72 PUs
        Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 75 PUs
        Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 80 PUs
        Objective Japanese 5 Pacific Airfields: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 85 PUs
        Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 90 PUs
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 10 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 15 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Japanese regular : -4,33
ANZAC regular : 0,50
British regular : -0,33

Savegame

[trulpen]

If you already have your turn underway you can of course make the edit as well, if it’s more convenient.

[simon33]

@trulpen said in L20 #2 trulpen (X) vs aagamerz13 (A+17) BM3:

Yes, it can be ignored, but if you attack it the sz is actively hostile and troops can’t be loaded. Hope I’m talking about the right thing now. Don’t have the map in front of me.

Just because it’s a combat zone doesn’t mean that you can’t load a transport. Only enemy surface warships prevent that.

[simon33]

Oh right, ksmckay already answered (correctly).

[trulpen]

Thanks anyway!

[aagamerz13]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 9

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 9

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 1 destroyer, 2 infantry, 3 submarines, 4 tactical_bombers and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Americans
        4 destroyers moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Northern Territory to 55 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 transports moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
        4 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone
        1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 11 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
        2 infantry moved from Morocco to 91 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
        2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Holland Belgium
        1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
        3 fighters moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux

    Combat - Americans

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

[aagamerz13]

@aagamerz13 kamis?

[trulpen]

@aagamerz13 said in L20 #2 trulpen (X) vs aagamerz13 (A+17) BM3:

@aagamerz13 kamis?

Yes, one on each des, so use of total four.

[aagamerz13]

TripleA Turn Summary: Americans round 9

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 9

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 1 destroyer, 2 infantry, 3 submarines, 4 tactical_bombers and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Americans
        4 destroyers moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Northern Territory to 55 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 transports moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
        4 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone
        1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 11 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
        2 infantry moved from Morocco to 91 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
        2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Holland Belgium
        1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
        3 fighters moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux

    Combat - Americans
        Kamikaze Suicide Attack attacks 1 destroyer owned by the Americans scoring 1 hits.  Rolls: 1
        Kamikaze Suicide Attack attacks 1 destroyer owned by the Americans scoring 0 hits.  Rolls: 4
        Kamikaze Suicide Attack attacks 1 destroyer owned by the Americans scoring 0 hits.  Rolls: 5
        Kamikaze Suicide Attack attacks 1 destroyer owned by the Americans scoring 0 hits.  Rolls: 3
        Battle in 26 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 1 fighter and 1 transport
            Japanese defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the Japanese lost in 26 Sea Zone
            Americans win with 1 fighter and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport
        Battle in 35 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 3 destroyers, 4 fighters, 1 tactical_bomber and 2 transports
            Japanese defend with 1 submarine
                Americans roll dice for 3 destroyers, 4 fighters, 1 tactical_bomber and 2 transports in 35 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/8 hits, 3.67 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 35 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Japanese lost in 35 Sea Zone
            Americans win, taking 35 Sea Zone from Japanese with 3 destroyers, 4 fighters, 1 tactical_bomber and 2 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 submarine
        Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
            Americans attack with 3 fighters and 2 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
                Americans roll dice for 3 fighters and 2 infantry in Normandy Bordeaux, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 1.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 2 infantry in Normandy Bordeaux, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Normandy Bordeaux
            Americans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from Germans with 3 fighters and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
            Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
        Battle in Holland Belgium
            Americans attack with 3 fighters and 2 infantry
            Germans defend with 2 infantry
                Americans roll dice for 1 cruiser in Holland Belgium, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 3 fighters and 2 infantry in Holland Belgium, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 1.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 2 infantry in Holland Belgium, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Germans and 1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Holland Belgium
            Americans win, taking Holland Belgium from Germans with 3 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
        Battle in Philippines
        Battle in Hawaiian Islands
            Americans attack with 1 armour and 1 infantry
            Japanese defend with 1 airfield, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                Americans roll dice for 1 armour and 1 infantry in Hawaiian Islands, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hawaiian Islands, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 armour and 1 infantry in Hawaiian Islands, round 3 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hawaiian Islands, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 armour and 1 infantry in Hawaiian Islands, round 4 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hawaiian Islands, round 4 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Hawaiian Islands
                Americans roll dice for 1 armour in Hawaiian Islands, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hawaiian Islands, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 armour in Hawaiian Islands, round 6 : 0/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hawaiian Islands, round 6 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 armour in Hawaiian Islands, round 7 : 0/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hawaiian Islands, round 7 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 armour in Hawaiian Islands, round 8 : 1/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hawaiian Islands, round 8 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese and 1 armour owned by the Americans lost in Hawaiian Islands
            Japanese win, taking Philippines from Japanese with no units remaining. Battle score for attacker is -6
            Casualties for Americans: 1 armour and 1 infantry
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Americans
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Cleaning up during movement phase
        4 carriers moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        3 fighters moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 2 submarines moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 carrier moved from 11 Sea Zone to 29 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Johnston Island to 29 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 26 Sea Zone to 29 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 11 Sea Zone to Western United States
        1 destroyer moved from 10 Sea Zone to 29 Sea Zone
        EDIT: 1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to United Kingdom
        EDIT: 1 fighter moved from Normandy Bordeaux to United Kingdom
        EDIT: 2 fighters moved from Holland Belgium to United Kingdom
        EDIT: 1 infantry moved from Eastern United States to 101 Sea Zone
        EDIT: 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        EDIT: 1 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Morocco
        EDIT: 1 armour moved from Algeria to Morocco
        EDIT: 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        EDIT: 1 submarine moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        EDIT: 1 bomber moved from Eastern United States to United Kingdom
        EDIT: 2 fighters moved from Normandy Bordeaux to 110 Sea Zone
        EDIT: 1 fighter moved from Eastern United States to 110 Sea Zone
        EDIT: 1 fighter moved from Eastern United States to Morocco
        EDIT: 1 infantry moved from Northern Territory to Queensland
        EDIT: 1 infantry moved from Tunisia to Libya
        EDIT: 1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
        EDIT: Americans undo move 16.

    Place Units - Americans
        1 destroyer, 3 submarines and 2 tactical_bombers placed in 10 Sea Zone
        1 transport placed in 10 Sea Zone
        2 infantry placed in Western United States
        2 tactical_bombers placed in Eastern United States
        Americans undo move 1.
        1 destroyer and 3 submarines placed in 10 Sea Zone
        2 tactical_bombers placed in Western United States

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 62 PUs; end with 63 PUs
        Trigger Americans 7 North Africa Beach Head: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs
        Trigger Americans 6 Western Europe Beach Head: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
        Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 83 PUs
        Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 88 PUs
        Objective Americans 4 Philippines: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 93 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Americans regular : -4.83
Japanese regular : -0.50
Germans regular : -0.33

Savegame

[aagamerz13]

@aagamerz13 hi trul. holiday weekend but don’t forget this game

[trulpen]

No problem.

[aagamerz13]

@trulpen actually gg. adjusted my allies strat a lot from this game.

[trulpen]

Good to hear! We live and we learn. It would be nice to hear your thoughts and more specifically what ideas you’ve changed. If you want to tell.