China wall strategy:

[Heavy Deed]

Yes IL,this works very well. Japan is more vulnerable than it looks. I did a similar strategy and it was very effective. I think it could be the dominant strat for the Allies in '41 once people give it a try and see how it stymies the Japs on the mainland. And as the Japs only get 17 IPCs on their first turn, and as they will usually buy a factory for Manchuria,this can work to the Allies advantage as they wont be able to make threats until J3. By this time,Russia has about 4-5 men in China with more on their way from the Soviet Far East.

[kendric]

In the few 50th games I have played, japan destroys almost all of china(Usually down to 3 territories on J1. Russias guys will be in the west most province on R1). That gives china 1 infantry on US 1. On Russia 2 I moved those russians to the province east where I had placed the chinese infantry. The japanese massed opposite to that. With all infantry and no russian fighters there was no way to attack. I was stuck then with only 1 Chinese infantry a turn until the Japanese took the province below where my units were massed. I then had to pull back to prevent them from sneaking past and I ended up stacking my russian troops on the west most province. That led to 0 chinese units a turn. I never got enough there to mount any sort of counter attack. How do you hold enough chinese territory when japan wipes out all chinese troops on turn 1?

[Funcioneta]

@kendric:

How do you hold enough chinese territory when japan wipes out all chinese troops on turn 1?

You can’t, 1941 favors axis (mainly Japan) by a big margin.

[a44bigdog]

Russia has to commit either a tank or a plane to this for it to work. It is also like Africa was in Revised if Japan wants all of China bad enough they will have. What you can do with the Allied wall is delay Japan some and make them work for that last little bit in China.

[Imperious Leader]

In 41 they have just like 1 tank. In 42 they have about 4, when does the tank commit to the ‘China wall’ in your opinion?

[a44bigdog]

Obviously after they have bought some  :-D

The games I have done this in are on the computer at my house where I don’t have internet so I can’t look at any battlemap files, but I think it was around round 3 or so. Again I equate this with the Axis in Africa. If Japan really wants China they will have China. However slipping a few Russian units that way can prevent an early shutdown of Chinese infantry and sometimes even expand a bit. Just the early infantry from Kazakh and Novo is enough to hold up the easy advance for the Japanese and prevent China from potentially not being able to even produce an infantry on round 2.

I also think this will be more effective early in the playing cycle of the game because I think too many people are trying to play the Axis like it is Revised or Classic. I just don’t feel the pressure with the Axis that I did in early games and I feel a slowdown of the Axis juggernaut could lead to some mistakes by overly hasty players.

[cond1024]

I have yet to try this out, but thinking about the China situation I think this would be delay Japan enough to get China going.

1941:
On R1 move all ERuss inf to Buryatia (manuchia border) giving a total of 7 inf on the boarder, move Moscow tank east and purchase 1 fighter on R1. Move Yakut inf east.  Inf in Eve N Okr and Novo head to China west most territory.

So at the end of R1 there are 7 inf on manchuria boarder, making Japan think twice about an IC in Manchuria.  They could still put it in Shanghi, but then can only produce 2 unit/turn instead of 3.  Also
if Japan wants to attack that stack they will need to bring a sizeable force to destroy it, thereby diverting units from other more importatn J1 attacks.  By leaving Soviet Far East open for invasion I am enticing Japan to go that way and waste time taking only 1 IPC per turn and drawing forces away from China.

On R3 attack Manchuria with 8 inf 1 tank (from moscow), 1 fighter (from R1 buy).  Depending on the Japan force in Manchuria it should be easy to take.  If a sizeable Japan force is in Manchuria then I would just hold the ground.

By having two sizeable russian forces on both sides of china it makes Japan work harder to take china, thereby delaying their advance into china.

[allies_fly]

@cond1024:

I have yet to try this out, but thinking about the China situation I think this would be delay Japan enough to get China going.

1941:
On R1 move all ERuss inf to Buryatia (manuchia border) giving a total of 7 inf on the boarder, move Moscow tank east and purchase 1 fighter on R1. Move Yakut inf east.  Inf in Eve N Okr and Novo head to China west most territory.

So at the end of R1 there are 7 inf on manchuria boarder, making Japan think twice about an IC in Manchuria.  They could still put it in Shanghi, but then can only produce 2 unit/turn instead of 3.  Also
if Japan wants to attack that stack they will need to bring a sizeable force to destroy it, thereby diverting units from other more importatn J1 attacks.  By leaving Soviet Far East open for invasion I am enticing Japan to go that way and waste time taking only 1 IPC per turn and drawing forces away from China.

I like the idea odf a russia bomber R1.  Keeps borneo somewhat protected as a solo tpt would be lost.  Plus the bomber can attack Manchuria with those 7 inf…. Japan would need to defend it or leave it empty.

Lots of units to keep Japan occupied.

[a44bigdog]

:?
where are the Russians going to park the bomber so it can hit Borneo? They would have to buy one in '41 and japan goes first in '42 so Buryatia may already be Japanese turf.

[allies_fly]

@a44bigdog:

:?
where are the Russians going to park the bomber so it can hit Borneo? They would have to buy one in '41 and japan goes first in '42 so Buryatia may already be Japanese turf.

Yes, you buy one in 1941, put it in Caucasus.  It can reach manchuria or borneo SZ, landing in australia.  Note you also need the Russian 7 inf in buryatia too

[Funcioneta]

@cond1024:

Also
if Japan wants to attack that stack they will need to bring a sizeable force to destroy it, thereby diverting units from other more importatn J1 attacks.  By leaving Soviet Far East open for invasion I am enticing Japan to go that way and waste time taking only 1 IPC per turn and drawing forces away from China.

That worked for me. Japan attacked only 1 chinese territory and the fighter survived. But I guess a more experienced japanese players would semi-ignore the soviet stack

[a44bigdog]

@allies_fly:

Yes, you buy one in 1941, put it in Caucasus.  It can reach manchuria or borneo SZ, landing in australia.  Note you also need the Russian 7 inf in buryatia too

Ok I got ya. It can reach the East Indies not Borneo. Not a big deal for Japan. I would still take Borneo and probably New guinea as well. The New Guinea transport can be sunk by the W. US bomber (land Australia) or the fighter off the SZ44 fleet, which will have to move up to recover the fighter. This means either the fleet is position where I can strike it on rd 2 or there is another bomber that can go down with the rest of the Allied junk on Australia rd 2.

Honestly the more I think about, I would probably just hit E. Indies anyway. If the Russians want to trade a 12 IPC bomber for a 7 IPC transport, I will make that trade all day long. And the way I position myself on turn one means barring some outrageously bad dice, Australia is going down on turn 2 even if the US flies in the 2 fighters that can land in Australia.

[kendric]

Doesn’t putting so many infantry adjacent to the ocean leave you vulnerable for a mass transport attack with fighters wiping out the entire eastern Russian force in one go?

[cond1024]

@kendric:

Doesn’t putting so many infantry adjacent to the ocean leave you vulnerable for a mass transport attack with fighters wiping out the entire eastern Russian force in one go?

Yes it does, but for Japan to do that on J1 they would have to use the three inf in manchuria plus the two trans in sea zone 61 and the one tranny in sz 62 along with fighters from manchuria, japan to consistantly take down that stack. By doing this Japan would miss out on other very important invasions to do on J1.

If Japan does what it should on J1 and attack Burma and take over Borneo and East Indies those three tranny aren’t in position to attack Buryatia on J2.  Depending on J1 buys Japan could attack the stack on J2, but it will require a lot of forces which will be diverted from other battles.

[bbrett3]

Moving so many infantry from Russia into China may help the Chinese out a bit, but you can’t forget that the Russians have to deal with the Germans Knocking on Moscow’s door b turn 2-3. Plus, In most games I play the Brits build an IC in India and flood troops through there in order to take mainland Asia

[Jennifer]

Ignore the Russian stack in Buryatia.  Who cares what they do.

Do your Japan normally (which for me is Kwangtung, Yunnan, Suiyuan, Borneo, Sumatra, Hupeh, Philippines) and then let the Russians walk into Manchuria

On round 2, obliterate the Russians in Manchuria with troops from Japan and left overs from Philippines. (Maybe one or two from Suiyuan if you need them.)

[Count_Zeppelin]

Ok, here is my opionion

Just don’t do it!

IMHO the russian western front is hard pressed as it is - There just are no points to spend on backjard fights. Leave your normal token force which the japanese will kill anyway in the east and the rest has to go west. Japan has more than enough firepower to overwhelm 2 aditional infantry - no point in guarding the japanese back door while germany pounds down front door.

[a44bigdog]

Without the 2 infantry from Kazakh and the 2 infantry from Novosibirsk, Japan WILL be on Russia’s back porch round 4. Count on it. The 4 Infantry prop up China for a few rounds  and are used to exploit any Japanese weakness in China. The addition of 1 offensive unit greatly improves the ability to exploit weakness in China and buy some additional relief from this area.

It does little good to stop the Germans on the Steppes if the Japanese are sipping Vodka in Moscow.

The uses of the Forces in the north is another subject and really worthy of its own thread. Stacking a bunch of offensiveless infantry next to Japan’s territory is notgoing to impress the Japanese much.

[Imperious Leader]

in 1941 the Soviets can spare 2 infantry, but thats about it.

You do need to seed China with something or you fact bigger problems than Japanese hitting the far east.

If China can get to a strong position, Japan is forced to buy infantry because the Chinese can and will take manchuria and other places if they get too large. This forces the japanese back to defend the supply lines.

China is the promise to help stop the japanese from backdoor Moscow.

In 1942 i think they can send 3-4, but the Chinese don’t need more than a few

[Jennifer]

I have no problem sending up to 5 infantry, 1 armor to China to stop Japan. (20 IPC) it only helps, however, if China can eek out at least one infantry a round themselves!

I do still find humorous the idea of sending 14 Russian Armor into China!  That would be a lark of epic proportions and I may actually do it one game just to see my opponent die of apoplectic shock at seeing the doors to Moscow open up to Germany by end round 3!