Supply Token for Lend-Lease

[General 6 Stars]

So does Canada have there own income ?
UK buying supply tokens T1 make sea lion defense weaker ?
Is it gonna make minor countries weaker buying or using transport that they need and don’t need ?
Can UK afford to spend money on supply’s and taking away Transports that they need for Europe invasions ?
Is Norway going to be the spot for allies landings every game now ?
I’m in favor of LL. I have played 3 different kinds.
I think if you buy a supply token it becomes a cargo ship. If you don’t want to use cargo ships then use a transport on top of supply token.
Also if you buy a supply token you receive the ship free.
Now you can bomb it in port. A roll of 1 kills it.
Any AA gun in port can Defend too. If it has a naval base then the base gets a AA gun defense shot to against a ship. This depends on if naval bases have built in aa guns.
Same if it’s at sea travel. If it’s with ships then it’s up to defender to choose. This depends on your ship casualty rules.
Also the cargo ship supply token should get to move 2.
Just idea here. I use a LL piece chart for Russian. Kinda like Sitedblood’s if that helps if cargo supply ships don’t work out in this game.
Another one is each country starts with cargo ships and if it makes it to an allies port then they receive the cargo. Could be a free piece or money. In one game I have cargo ships can move 6 but if an enemy ship is in path it stops it from moving. Route drawings is an option here but unlikely in this game.
I also always felt a ship should get to shore shoot it too. Just like a sub could sink it too.
Not trying to go off topic here but why not give Russia tankograd factory ? They receive 1 free tank per turn.
Plus they use LL chart. No allies allowed in Russia period.
Lend Lease

1. Mech
   2.Art
2. Nothing
3. Tank
4. Art
5. Mech
   Roll for 1 piece per turn
   Your just so restricted with d6 system

Just ideas to help if at all

[Argothair]

I’m glad people are interested in this idea!

That said, I really don’t have strong opinions about the best way to adjudicate bombing runs on supply crates. That’s just not the part of the house rule that excites me. I would ideally want to keep the bombing rules very simple, so as not to require a lot of accounting or distract attention from other parts of the game, but if you have a set of complicated bombing rules that you and your friends enjoy, then go wild. There’s nothing wrong with that.

If you’re looking for my ideal bombing rules, I will try to explain them one more time:

1. Choose to target the supply crate rather than another facility. Any number of bombers can target the same crate
2. Suffer from AA fire and fighter interceptors as normal. Only surviving bombers can roll dice against crates.
3. If at least one bomber rolls a 4, 5, or 6, then completely destroy the crate that was targeted.
4. Ignore rolls of 1, 2, or 3. Do not partially damage crates.

These rules should generate slightly less economic payoff than ordinary strategic bombing…if your bomber gets through, you do an average of 2.5 damage, instead of 3.5 damage on a successful regular run. If you want more damage, you can allow hits on rolls of 3, as well.

[Argothair]

As far as Canada having its own separate economy, yes, that’s certainly part of what I’m envisioning here, although you can use the Supply Crate rules even if you have no interest in switching up the British economies. I would ideally like to have four English-speaking powers:

1. USA
2. British Empire
3. Canada
4. ANZAC

British Empire would be UK + Iceland + Gibraltar + British Africa + India + Malaya + Hong Kong, and anything they conquer or liberate during the game. The Indian major factory is downgraded to two minor factories: one in India, and one in West India.

Canada would get +1 IPC each in British Columbia (allows purchase of a minor factory if desired), Yukon (becomes passible), and Newfoundland, as well as an NO for clearing Axis subs from the Atlantic worth about 3 IPCs/turn. Alberta would start with an extra tac bomber, Hudson Bay would start with an extra DD, and Ontario would start with an air base. If anyone knows of other NOs that would make sense thematically for Canada, I’m open to suggestions. Politically, Canada is treated like ANZAC, i.e., it starts off at war with Germany and Italy, and it will declare war on Japan as soon as Japan is at war with UK and/or ANZAC. It can declare an unprovoked war on Japan if desired, but that keeps the USA out of the war for longer.

The lack of Canadian income would make Britain slightly more vulnerable to Sea Lion…but you can now spend Indian income to protect London if you want, so there is still plenty of flexibility for the Allies in terms of which English-speaking countries will come under early attack. If you build nothing in India, you would wind up having more money to spend in London than in a standard OOB G40 game.

[General 6 Stars]

I see what your getting at with one UK economy. Money to counter sea lion T1
And counter India crush T2 or vice versa
Canada should have at least 7 income. This way they can buy a destroyer or tranny. Once they get the NO can buy a fig.
I don’t know what Canada makes now but you could make Quebec worth 3 for an upgraded factory. But highly unlikely unless it becomes the new London capital but I don’t think this rule is in game

[General 6 Stars]

I check on them and don’t see really another NO unless maybe give them a free supply token per turn. What I mean is from history if I’m correct they never received a cent from US and by 1943 were suppling half of the convoys and by end of 44 most of it.
Average Canadian citizen paid more in taxes than anybody else.
Her supplies went to the United Nations.
End of 44 it was 4 billion which was more dollar per capital than our LL.
Anyway that’s that.

[General 6 Stars]

So with 1 UK economy then they start with 45 income ? I’m going off of g40 Uk Europe 28
Uk India 17 if this is correct. Well if Canada makes 7 icps then u would subtract that from UK income of 45 = Uk 38 income.
Or are you looking at keeping Uk at 45 income and giving Canada 7 so there’s no bid now also with your tweaks ?
Now if u upgrade to a major in India will they be strong enough down the road to deny Japan a victory or axis ?

[Argothair]

@SS-GEN That’s right, British economy would start at 28 + 17 - 7 = 38 IPCs.

You can spend 20 of that on upgrading the India factory on UK1 plus 18 IPCs on 6 infantry for India on UK1 if you really want to…but now London has zero defense for sea lion, and if London falls then you are not going to be able to use the India factories!

More realistically, if Japan leaves India alone and Germany leaves London alone then maybe by uk3 or so you can upgrade the India factory and hold India for the full game.

[General 6 Stars]

@Argothair said in Supply Token for Lend-Lease:

@SS-GEN That’s right, British economy would start at 28 + 17 - 7 = 38 IPCs.

You can spend 20 of that on upgrading the India factory on UK1 plus 18 IPCs on 6 infantry for India on UK1 if you really want to…but now London has zero defense for sea lion, and if London falls then you are not going to be able to use the India factories!

More realistically, if Japan leaves India alone and Germany leaves London alone then maybe by uk3 or so you can upgrade the India factory and hold India for the full game.

Right.

[barnee]

@Argothair

Right on. I see what your saying now. I think triplea should support this. I’ll look into it and see what it would take to add it as an option.

[barnee]

I just reread everything and think the only thing triplea can’t do is the different bombing hits. It will have to be treated as if it’s a minor factory with no ability to repair.

Shouldn’t be too complicated since that’s how the other bombing targets work.

Think damage would be ok too, as in only part of the cargo got destroyed, but if one was playing ftf your bombing rules would work fine as well.
Maybe if it’s damaged it can’t be looted. Not sure if that could be done or not.

At any rate, i think it’s a cool idea :)

[General 6 Stars]

Argo
Here’s a few more NOs that I’ve played in other games for Canada.
2 icps for 1 warship in N Atlantic certain szs
2 icps for 1 warship in Atlantic certain szs
Same as no axis subs in certain sea zones maybe and or need a ship in these szs to get money
3 icps when US is at war with Axis this would take a load off Canada’s lend lease historically
Or as mentioned give Canada a 1 free supply token per turn
There’s a few more but mostly if allies in certain territories Canada receives more money but I
Don’t like them mostly unless it’s an actual
Canadain ground unit there. Like if an Canada inf gets in Normandy receive 2 or 3 icps.
Or maybe give Canada 3 icps per turn if UK Europe controls all there territories but don’t know how deep you want to go.
In one game I’ve seen Canada collect up to 13 icps per turn and another game up to 20 which to me was crazy. Canada was taking African territories

[barnee]

@Argothair

Revisiting this and while still a cool idea, I wonder how effective it would be. I don’t think you can send a convoy to Murmansk without US help. UK won’t be strong enough. Also you’d have to hold Lenningrad through Rd5 at least.

Ideally the 111 fleet survives and retreats to Iceland. Hopefully 106 as well. If not Canada can still buy 2 tokens, the US can build a CV and a couple DDs and Ftrs. Move some of it’s Pacific Fleet through Panama.

Rd2 (assuming Japan has attacked) the US can pick up the Tokens and head to Iceland. If needed you can fly a Ftr or two there as well.

Rd3 will put you in SZ125. This is probably the danger zone depending on what the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe are doing but you should be strong enough. If not or looks as if Lenningrad isn’t gonna hold, go to UK instead.

Rd 4 drop your stuff at Lenningrad. Rd 5 Russia has an extra 10 bucks to spend that turn. If you have another convoy behind it you can get another 10 bucks Rd 6. A couple DDs and 3 Ftrs in Lenningrad should be enough to protect the Trprt and you can leave most of your strength in 125.

I guess it depends on if Germany goes south or not and if an extra 10 bucks a turn is worth it to hold Lenningrad. Sometimes Russia will get into Scandanavia so maybe you can hold and the extra dough and Ftrs will be just enough to give Moscow a chance.

You could also activate Persia and get dough to stalingrad by Rd7. So maybe another 10 bucks before Moscow gets attacked. A big investment for the Allies for sure, but you can always send the dough to UK if Lennin and stalin have fallen.

Obviously the best part of it is versus flying all Ftrs over, is Russia can spend it on what it wants and give it more of a counterattack capability. And if Germany does try and stop it, it forces him to spend more dough in the Atlantic (which helps Russia) and or go North (which would help the Persia/Stalingrad route).

Another concern is Germany could buy 4 Tokens after France falls and send them to Italy. Could end up with a large canopener Force or threaten the Med. Idk, just have to give it a shot. Anyway gonna try and add it to triplea and see what happens. :)

[barnee]

@Argothair

Was able to come pretty close to what you proposed. There are a few minor differences. A Big Thank You to redrum and Hepps and TWW. Made it MUCH easier to implement. Here’s where we’re at.

Check “Supply Token” in Map Options to activate the “Supply Crate”. Bombing and limited Factory areas are the only thing different from what you posted. It takes 7 damage to kill it. It still will produce 5 bucks even if it is damaged. Not every TTy with a Factory will convert it to dough. I’ll list the ones that do by country.

Germany
W Germany, Germany, and Romania will convert Allied Crates to German ones. You need a Factory in Romania to turn them into 5 bucks a piece. Thinking on Romania was if W Germany went down, Italy could have a potential safe route to get Germany some coin.

Russia
Archangel, Russia, Volgograd, Caucasus and Amur will convert Allied Crates to Russian. Russia, Volgograd, Novograd and Caucasus will turn them into dough. Caucasus will need a factory to do so. I misunderstood the original post and had Lenningrad turning Crates into Russian ones too. So it will take an extra rd to get cash to them. Crates are only 2 moves from Moscow though, so it should still prove interesting.

The thinking on Caucasus was if you are playing with an “Allied Units in Russia” penalty, this wouldn’t activate it. Also gives Russia the option to go big if they want and build a factory to save a turn for PU activation. Made a separate Map Option for Amur. It doesn’t need a Factory to convert Crates. It works the same as the Factories and only coverts as many as its TTy value. In this case 1. It also places a DD and Trprt in SZ 5. They may only move in SZs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 and 10 until at war with Japan. Movement restrictions are then lifted.

Idk how effective it will be, but with more potential resources for Russia and India, maybe Russia doesn’t do a J1 attack. Make Japan think about it too if they have to send more stuff towards India. Anyway, it’s historical and one never knows how it might play out.

Japan
India and West India will convert Crates and turn them into PUs. W India would need a factory. Thinking here was if Germany was strong coming through the Caucasus, they could send some dough to them. While not real historical, Germany did try and send them the plans for the 262. Besides, it’s a Giant game of “What If” anyway :)

USA
Eastern US and Western US will convert up to 4 Crates each per turn. Also Canada Crates will not convert. This was to keep Canada from just buying Crates and sending them to the US and doing nothing else. We can change that if you want. While unlikely US would receive LL, maybe UK or ANZAC would want to send them some if one of Germany or Japan were pretty much done and they wanted to dust the other. Just trying to be consistent with the rule. We can change this as well, but probably doesn’t matter as it is about as likely to be used as a French Aircraft Carrier.:joy:

China
They don’t get to play. If some sort of option was wanted, we can always try to add it.

UK
They and UKP work a little different than everybody else due to the way triplea does the split income thingy. UK and Scotland convert Crates up to their TTy value and turn them into dough. Scotland needs a Factory for that. They convert Crates to UK Crates up to TTy value per Allied turn regardless of how many UK Crates are there. So if USA sends 12 Crates to UK, 6 would convert to Uk Crates and the other 6 would stay US. Then, hypothetically, Canada could land 8 Crates and UK would convert 6 to UK crates as well. The other 2 staying Canadian.

UKP
India and West India convert Crates the same way as UK does. W India needs a Factory. When converting to PUs, they use a National Objective. Instead of saying “Units Generate … PUs”, it will say they reached a National Objective. This does not show up in the Objectives tab.

Italy
N Italy and S Italy convert Crates.

Canada
Quebec converts Crates. Just noticed it won’t convert UK Crates. I’m gonna leave it as is. It can be added if desired. I was primarily only going to do it to be consistent.

ANZAC
Queensland, New South Wales and New Zealand convert Crates. Queensland and NSWs will convert them to PUs. NSWs would need a Factory. New Zealand provides a usually safer route for the US and sets up a shuck for ANZAC. Also would convert Crates to PUs if one was using the “Factory Limited” Option.

France
Normandy, S France and France itself, all convert Crates. They all convert them to PUs. If their Crates ever ended up in an Allied conversion TTy, they would be assimilated. Except for UK. That is the only country where there might be some sorta freakazoid situation where you would want to do it that I can think of. At any rate, not gonna worry about it :)

I’ll stop here and address “UK One Economy” and the “Canadian Boosts” in the next post.

[barnee]

“UK One Economy” and the “Canadian Boosts”

“Canada Boost”
I already had this and most of it is the same as what you were thinking. There is a slight difference.

2. “CanadaBoost” Gives plus 1 PU to British Columbia. Newfoundland Labrador and Yukon Territory are now worth 1 PU. May also be activated via Map Options with “Canada Boost”. 3) “CanadaUnitBoost” Gives 2 Infantry and a Tac Bomber to Alberta. Also places 2 infantry in UK. May also be activated via Map Options with “Canada Boost”. 4) “CanadianNationalObjectives” Gives 2 PUs to Canada if Sea Zones 117 and 123 are Allied controlled. May also be activated via Map Options with “Canada Boost”.

So the 2 dollar objective vs the 3 dollar “no subs” is the only real difference. That and the 2 dudes in England. When using “UK One Economy” they aren’t added. Also adds,

“Argo Canada Boost”
Adds the DD to Hudson’s Bay and an AB to Ontario. I’m guessing the AB is for flavor ? I don’t see where it makes any movement difference. All good to me. Flavor is a nice part of the game :)

So Canada will get 10 bucks a turn and 12 if it meets the objective. We can still add the “no subs” one if you want. I just figured since this was already done and the fact the US can give them some dough too (even 5 a turn would make a difference), that I’d just roll with it.

“UK One Economy”
The only issue here is that you will need to “Edit” the extra 17 bucks to UK and remove them from UKP. UKP won’t show up if you don’t, but it will affect the “PUs Game Total”. UK will still work the same way as the split economy as far as the Crates are concerned.

Idk how it will all work out. I could see US sending a pile of dough to UK and then UK can spend it in India. Probably be faster than building a huge fleet in order to engage Japan. Germany boosting Italy.
Every thing you do means you can’t do something else though. Should be fun seeing what happens :)

At any rate, if there’s something you’d like to change or add, let me know and I’ll see what can be done. Still need to add the “Supply Token” to the regular game and update the Game Notes. I just tested this as I went, so there still may be some issues. Probably do a little more, but I think I’ve caught the glaring ones. Still a good chance for unexpected behavior, but will have to try a few games to see if there is any. Might need to adjust some things anyway after seeing how it all shakes out.

Hepps is making a couple units. He said he’d do them as soon as he can, being the Stud that he is :) Then update to github and we’ll be good to go. So probably a couple more days.

At any rate, let me know what you think.

Peace Out

[barnee]

Haven’t got the new units yet. I misunderstood the time frame of when they’d be ready. Went ahead and uploaded to triplea. I’ll add the new units when they become available.