Global War 1940 2nd ed.

[General 6 Stars]

@Imperious-Leader said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

The so called naval fighter should specialize in targeted attacks against naval targets, like a land based fighter should be able to target land units

During the opening combat phase, fighters should round by round fight each other only and when one side has fighters, that side should be able to choose land or sea targets.

I would further shorten the name to just dive bomber for naval and fighter-Bomber for land. Further, i like having the cost be the same as per Baron.

So on land:

Fighter
Fighter-Bomber
Strategic Bomber

On Sea
Fighter
Dive Bomber

Ya well most guys won’t play this way. There so used to playing no DF round if anything.
I know where your coming from but that would change the whole game up to much as of now.
I’m assuming your saying planes attack each other per round of combat only until one side has no planes left for air superiority or is it all planes do there combat rounds first then it’s first round of normal combat with one side having air superiority ?
Then if anything the cost of planes would need to go to 5 or 6.
The air superiority is not going to work in these games based on setup and players imo.
Not every plane was shooting at each other in battles. At least I have a mandatory DF round for every type of battle. Could I go to 2 rounds of DF maybe ? Possible. But now we also have ships getting AA shots at planes. Just think it would make the plane almost obsolete in most battles. I see the point if it’s historical which my game is based on mostly and not the real outcome of ww2 as for allies winning but at least the pieces and many many small worth scenarios that happened in war without throwing off balance.

Also now planes all cost the same. The old way was based on no CR BB Carrier Attack AA guns and the Tac and Gr fig able to M5 and D7.
50/50 chance the C of planes go to 9 if the 2 games we play June 15-16 show to many planes destroyed and will add more to setup.
Why not have it like ships.
Half the ships defend amphibious assault for shore shot and other half of ships attack enemy ships in same sz.
So for the planes have half your planes doing a DF every round and other half doing ground or naval support attacks.
Then when you lose all your planes in the DF you have the option of pulling a plane or 2 from ground or naval support and keep the Enemy DF planes from attacking then next round against your ground or navy ?

[Imperious Leader]

Planes fight concurrently with other units but separate until only one side has planes. Not the case that you resolve all plane combat then land combat. That way you can still retreat then to watch your air force get chewed up.

[General 6 Stars]

@Imperious-Leader said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Planes fight concurrently with other units but separate until only one side has planes. Not the case that you resolve all plane combat then land combat. That way you can still retreat then to watch your air force get chewed up.

Ya but funny how this concept is not any aa games. Maybe 36 and I’m sure a few personal games.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

@Imperious-Leader said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Planes fight concurrently with other units but separate until only one side has planes. Not the case that you resolve all plane combat then land combat. That way you can still retreat then to watch your air force get chewed up.

Ya but funny how this concept is not any aa games. Maybe 36 and I’m sure a few personal games.

That is essentially what I’m playing with Fighters at lower cost. It works well.

But, with the new idea of rolling 2 dice for a given unit, I can think of TcB rolling both against aircraft and ground units. Of course, TcB would get a minimal roll vs aircraft while picking ground target at an higher rate.

For instance, using D12, my C8 TcB can be AA@1 and Pickground@4 while Fighter C7 can roll two AA@2 or 1AA@4 until there is no available target then apply roll as usual.

For your game SS, I can think of a Fg doing AA@3 with a regular roll @2 on attack and @4 on defense.

[General 6 Stars]

Ya I got ideas to for planes.
Tac @1 plane or @6 ground
Fig AD@3 plane or D@7 ground

Without adding any planes at a cheaper cost, lowered AD could go with no DF
Tac AD@2 blue dice Plane hit
AD @5 red dice pic ground or ship
Fig AD@3 blue dice plane hit
AD@4 red dice pic ground or ship

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Ya I got ideas to for planes.
Tac @1 plane or @6 ground
Fig AD@3 plane or D@7 ground

Without adding any planes at a cheaper cost, lowered AD could go with no DF
Tac AD@2 blue dice Plane hit
AD @5 red dice pic ground or ship
Fig AD@3 blue dice plane hit
AD@4 red dice pic ground or ship

Exactly!
Giving 2 dice means no need to have a dogfight phase.
Each regular combat round is played at 2 level air and naval or land battles.

Now, if all aircraft and major warships are playing on these two level, you need to balance them and specialized each unit according to a different purpose.

[General 6 Stars]

HEY ! Lol
You don’t like my plane numbers ? Just was using as an example.
Ya I would need to really test this out. If I can will try to get some group players to try in a few months. At least the ships will be tested in 2 weeks for 2 games if I get all show ups hopefully.

Might as well do the planes lower costs with AD values. Plus add planes to setup too.
Would like to try planes with what costs I have in game now maybe ? Or just go for it all

[General 6 Stars]

This is what I have for ships for next games.
The plane numbers will not be used yet. Tweaking those as of now. Each ship and plane piece rolls 2 dice with different colors.
D12 system
BB C15 AD@3 plane & AD@6 ship
1 damage AD@3 Plane & AD@4 ship
CR C10 AD@3 plane & AD@5 ship
AC C15 D@3 plane only. 1 dam D@2 plane only
EC C8 D@3 plane only

Tac C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@4 pick target
Dive C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@4 pick target
Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@4 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@5 ship or ground
N Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@3 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@5 ship or ground

Ok. There is no dog fighting now. So each plane gets a plane shot. I kept the number 1 less to see if it’s ok. Worried about over kill and have not added any planes to setup.
These are just a starting point if I don’t go with another idea with cheaper plane values and added to setup.
That be the next set of numbers to come up with in a bit. I’m sure baron is looking into his numbers.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN
I like that warship are @3 AA, Fg @2 AA and TcB @1.
Easy to remember.

With two dice it is almost same odds than 1 dice, treating “2” or less as hit on aircraft and higher scored hits treated as usual.

Now the question is whether or not the two dice mechanic is giving a good pace and a nice flavor to your game.

I’m ok with your numbers, mostly 8.33%, 16,7% or 25% is keeping things in check with minimal values.

Assuming this for your next game, what can be your AAgun values and mechanic?

[General 6 Stars]

What do you mean by my AA gun values and mechanics ?

[General 6 Stars]

I think your saying this ? I will make all pieces just add the 2 dice numbers to one dice number if there is only one side without planes or both sides without planes. Plus SBR DF same for 1 round only.
Remember in all battles all A and D planes can retreat after 1 round of combat.
SBR. 1 round only for now.
These pieces now only roll 1 dice
Tac AD@1
Fig AD@3
N fig AD@3
N Dive AD@1
Stg B AD@1
H Bom AD@2

One side or no side with planes
Tac A@6 D@5 pick target
Fig A@6 D@7
N Fig A@5 D@7
N Di. A@6 D@5 pick target

Ships only
BB AD@9 1 dam AD@6
CR AD@8
AC D@3 plane only 1 dam D@2 plane only
EC D@3 plane only
Now I just added the pieces aa and ad values
But I also can go with just there non plane aa shots for ships and go with this due to the BB and CR having less turrets for ships because of AA capabilities.
BB AD@6 1 dam @4
CR AD@5
Planes wouldn’t change due to focusing on ground or sea units.
These also can go to lower AD values but don’t think plane guns take up that much room.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

What do you mean by my AA gun values and mechanics ?

Don’t you have an Anti-Aircraft Artillery unit?
Moving 1
Cost ?
Attack?
Defense roll @1 vs up to 3 aircraft?
No return shot?

[General 6 Stars]

AA gun
C5 M1 D@2 at each plane

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

AA gun
C5 M1 D@2 at each plane

Each round?
Return shot for plane?

[General 6 Stars]

Major @2
Minor @1
Refineries @2
Resources @1
Oil Derricks @1
These all have built in AA guns
Can’t use AA gun and one of the above

[General 6 Stars]

@baron-Münchhausen said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

AA gun
C5 M1 D@2 at each plane

Each round?
Return shot for plane?

No but Tac and N Dive can target a AA gun @4

[General 6 Stars]

But for the facilities with aa @1 you can forgo the built in AA and use regular AA @2
Air and naval bases have aa @2

[General 6 Stars]

I went back and tried to get numbers to work like ships for planes for battles with no planes or one side with planes. I see that the side attacking with planes has a more chance to lose a few from defending AA ship guns with no planes. So I see the attacking ships have to go to one die AD at there normal numbers.
The planes trying to get to work is not gonna work unless I’m missing something.
Attacking planes also have to go to there normal 1 die values with no defending planes in battles. Attacker risks his planes but get higher attack value due to no DF and defending ships get a chance to hit 2 pieces due to AA.

Ships and plane values with one side with planes or no planes in battles.
BB AD@9 1 dam AD@6
CR AD@8
Tac A@6 D@4 pic target
Fig A@6 D@7
N Fig A@6 D@7
N Dive A@6 D@4 pic target
So I have where to remember is if planes on both sides then for BB and CR just substract 3 from normal A and goes too aa gun.
For planes it’s just 1 and 2 for aa
BB A@3 aa plane A@6 ship
CR A@3 aa plane A@5 ship
Tac A@1 aa plane A@5 pick piece return fire
Fig A@2 aa plane A@4 any piece
N fig A@2 aa plane A@4 any piece
N Dive A@1 aa plane A@5 pick piece return fire

[General 6 Stars]

I edited the last post.
I did a first round test attack for Ger and UK in my game setup.
This is the results.
Ger attacker UK Defender
1 BB Bismark 3 hits 1 BB
1 CR 1 CR
1 DD 1 DD
3 SS 1 TR
6 Figs 4 Figs scrambled.
Results left
Ger UK
1 SS Nothing
4 Figs
Lose ICP’s Lose ICP’s
1 BB Bismark 30 1 BB 15
1 CR 10 1 CR 10
1 DD 6 1 DD 6
2 SS 14 1 TR 7
2 Figs 20 = 80 icp’s lost 4 Figs 40 = 78 icp’s lost
1 Ger fig killed by UK plane AA 4 UK figs killed by 4 Ger plane AA
1 Ger fig killed by UK BB AA

Both sides had thee option of retreating there planes after first round but did not.
UK was hoping to get more than 1 plane kill but just got the 1 with BB and
there figs got nothing.
Ger got 4 plane AA kills. Even with the lower ship A&D rolls
where good for both sides. So if not for that the battle would of went a few more rounds
of combat. As for no DF now the Ger Figs would of probably killed 1- 4 UK figs
anyway in the DF. UK 4 figs may have gotten 2 ger figs in DF but the Ship AA helped
with there figs only getting 1 Ger fig kill with AA.

Also what helps is by using a different colored AA gun to represent the plane and ships
AA shots they receive per round on the combat board. What I’m saying is for Germany they had 2 Ship AA shots at @3 and 6 planes AA shots @2.
So with a Red AA gun place 2 grey chips under AA gun and place in Column 2 on Battle board and place 1 Red AA gun with a red chip and 1 grey chip under it and place in column 3 on battle board. This shows you how many AA shots you get at planes.
Then place your ships in the correct columns with values and your figs also.
Its easier to roll for your AA shots first. No need to roll 2 different dice at a time.
Now Baron is this still work for you ?
I know the thrill is throwing 2 dice but with AA being in correct battle board columns its a lot easier and faster this way when rolling dice.
I can see more planes maybe getting killed in bigger naval battles here. But then you have the option of scrambling 1 plane from another AB within any territory or land and only for now in game ( this may go up if more planes are added to game or if planes become cheaper ) and besides you can retreat your planes and then your ships go to max values on attacks with just ship battles. The other question is if only one side brings planes his ships will be weaker on the attack and even with defending ships but now the defender has the option of killing some of your planes. There’s more of a trade off here going on too. But also can the defender afford to have no air cover because now fig and Tac planes go to there Max A&D values due to no defending plane fights.
This is where Barons idea of cheaper planes may come in with lower A&D values. But you should always have planes for A&D any way. I also can see a Territory with a resource on it having a fig defending it.
All kinds of stuff going on here.

F in thing wouldn’t let me write both on same line spaced out . GDMit.
Hope you can follow. Left side Ger pieces right side UK pieces. I ain’t retyping this.

[General 6 Stars]

Also I’m thinking of dropping all planes costs for Tac, Dive and both Figs to 9.
I do have Tech in game where if you get it you have a 33% chance of your planes costing 1 icp less for a cost of 8.

But I think the Tac and Dive Bombers if they can pic tsrget now should go to
A@1 aa plane A@4 pick target return shot.
D@1 aa plane D@3 pick target with return

No planes in fight
A@5 pick target with return shot
D@4 pick target with return shot