[Global 1940] The Free French/Vichy French

[General 6 Stars]

@Narvik:

If he promise to use that rule in his basement only, playing friends, then I am fine with it. But t t t, in case you ask me, I want rules to be streamlined. No special rules, not even for the Chineese people. Obviously our A&A units dont behave exactly like the real WWII units did, but isnt a Vichy rule a step in the wrong direction ? How was France 1940 (Petain) different from Norway 1940 (Quizling), or Italy 1943 (Badoglio) ? The pattern is, than when a Capitol is captured, some Benedict Arnold kind of man always pops up, ready to serve his new master. But what about the unoccupied territories, should they too surrender, or stay fighting ? Or maybe turn into a state of neutrals ? And how to model this with as few special rules as possible ?
Enough

What would be your rule after France falls ? No really.

[Argothair]

I don’t think it makes sense to model “puppet” governments in a game like Axis & Allies, which focuses much more on military strategy than on diplomacy. I do agree that it’s important to streamline the rules and keep them applied consistently from nation to nation. So, here’s the rule I would use for capital capture for all nations, including France, Italy, China, and UK Pacific:

1. Every nation starts the game with a treasury, the ability to collect income, and a specific capital territory that has at least a minor factory.
2. If you capture a nation’s capital, you can loot up to 10 IPCs from their treasury. The first time each game that a nation loses its capital, that nation may immediately relocate its capital to any territory it still controls that is worth 1 IPC or more. If the nation does not or cannot do so, the nation is defeated.
3. If a nation loses its capital twice in the same game, that nation is defeated.
4. A defeated nation can never again collect income or place new units. Defeated nations may still move and attack with any remaining units.
5. Any nation allied to a defeated nation may ‘activate’ the remaining territories of a defeated nation by moving ground troops into them during non-combat. For example, if France has been defeated, then any remaining French territories are treated as pro-Allied territories for economic purposes. The British could convert French West Africa into a British territory by landing troops there, and the Russians could convert French Madagascar into a Russian territory by landing troops there. Activation is optional.

I’d put the starting Chinese minor factory in Szechuan, with maybe a second minor factory in Suiyuan, representing the Communist headquarters. All factories, not just Chinese factories, would permanently disappear when conquered by enemies.

I think the capital relocation rules will tend to favor the Allies, so you could probably play with 1940 2nd Ed. rules without a bid and have a balanced game.

[A Former User]

To Argothair’s point - you sort of need to decide if you want a game that is military based on order of battles at start of 1940, or you want a game that provides some replay of events in WWII.  I like complexity - which does not have to interfere with play-ability.  So I’m in favor of additional actions/events in the game.  Otherwise the game can become too redundant, with only the dice becoming the major deciding factor on variability.

[Charles de Gaulle]

The main point in making Vichy/Free French rules should be just for fun.  Making France an interesting nation to play is the point.

[CWO Marc]

@Charles:

The main point in making Vichy/Free French rules should be just for fun.  Making France an interesting nation to play is the point.

And also to put more of those blue sculpts to work rather than having them mostly sadly sitting idle in their storage box.

While I’m on the subject, here’s a question I’d like to toss in because I’m curious about what people think. A&A Europe 1940 has blue units that consist of an actual distinctive French WWII infantryman sculpt, plus an assortment of foreign WWII equipment sculpts.  A&A WWI 1914 has blue units that consist of an actual distinctive French WWI infantryman sculpt, plus an assortment of generic WWI equipment sculpts.  The two shades of blue are fairly close, though not identical.  Question: if you were to use these two sets of sculpts to depict the two French sides in a house-ruled Global 1940 game, which ones would you use to depict which side?  Would you use the WWI 1914 blue pieces to depict Vichy and the Europe 1940 blue pieces to depict the Free French, or would you do the reverse?

[Charles de Gaulle]

Using the WW1 set is very common here.  I typically go with the World War II set for Vichy because Vichy tends to have more unit types.  The only Free French unit I really miss is the destroyer this way.

[General 6 Stars]

I use the WW1 French Inf for Foreign Legion in 39 40
Games.

De Gaulle be proud of me.

[Charles de Gaulle]

You’re dead SS.

Pistol shot

Never again shall you disgrace the spirit of the Fighting Free French.
:-D

[General 6 Stars]

@Charles:

You’re dead SS. :x

Pistol shot

Never again shall you disgrace the spirit of the Fighting Free French.
:-D

Hey. I got Free French in my 40 game still.
:-o

[Charles de Gaulle]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

This guy’s a Zombie.  Don’t listen to his lies.  If you receive him in your new Axis and Allies Zombie box, please call Wizards of the Coast and request a replacement.

[General 6 Stars]

@Charles:

^^^^^^^^^^^^

This guy’s a Zombie.  Don’t listen to his lies.  If you receive him in your new Axis and Allies Zombie box, please call Wizards of the Coast and request a replacement.

As long as there Vichy Zombies !

I also have French Event Cards too !
:evil:

[CWO Marc]

@Charles:

Using the WW1 set is very common here.  I typically go with the World War II set for Vichy because Vichy tends to have more unit types.  The only Free French unit I really miss is the destroyer this way.

Both options do indeed have their pros and cons, the large number of unit types you mentioned being one of the variables to consider.  My own inclination would be to use the reverse option (E1940 = FF, 1914 = Vichy) because of the sculpt designs.  As far as I know, the Free French used a mixture of their own equipment and (probably to larger degree) equipment supplied by the British and/or the Americans, which would mean that it would be plausible for their sculpts to be a) Allied power designs and b) mid-to-late-war designs.  And as far as I know, Vichy’s military and naval hardware consisted of whatever France still had left when the fighting ended in late June 1940.  I don’t think Germany supplied any weapons to Vichy, and Germany probably didn’t permit Vichy to re-arm on its own, since it wasn’t in Germany’s interest to have France built itself back up as a major military power – so the 1914 game’s nondescript and antiquated sculpts would reflect this pretty well.

[General 6 Stars]

@CWO:

@Charles:

Using the WW1 set is very common here.  I typically go with the World War II set for Vichy because Vichy tends to have more unit types.  The only Free French unit I really miss is the destroyer this way.

Both options do indeed have their pros and cons, the large number of unit types you mentioned being one of the variables to consider.  My own inclination would be to use the reverse option (E1940 = FF, 1914 = Vichy) because of the sculpt designs.  As far as I know, the Free French used a mixture of their own equipment and (probably to larger degree) equipment supplied by the British and/or the Americans, which would mean that it would be plausible for their sculpts to be a) Allied power designs and b) mid-to-late-war designs.  And as far as I know, Vichy’s military and naval hardware consisted of whatever France still had left when the fighting ended in late June 1940.  I don’t think Germany supplied any weapons to Vichy, and Germany probably didn’t permit Vichy to re-arm on its own, since it wasn’t in Germany’s interest to have France built itself back up as a major military power – so the 1914 game’s nondescript and antiquated sculpts would reflect this pretty well.

Yes I use the E40 Frenchys for Free French and the 1914 Frencys for Legion. I was using FF Inf painted dark blue for Legion but know like the 1914 diff piece. Not to picky on how they look. Just easier for some to not have to paint for Legion. Vichy you could use HBG super Light blue or paint for Vichy.

[CWO Marc]

It would be nice if the non-infantry French sculpts in Europe 1940 were unique French designs – but although that’s not the case, one point in their favour is that they add up to quite a bit of diversity if you combine the 1st edition and 2nd edition sculpts.  France’s 1940 equipment sculpts replicate the Soviets ones in each game; in the 1st edition, this gives France a mixture of Russian, American and British designs, while the 2nd edition replaces most of the American and British designs with Rusian ones and adds a new AAA unit in the form of a Russian-design sculpt.  And in a sense, that patchwork diversity conveys a suitable impression that the Free French (if they’re given the 1940 sculpts) are using equipment from their fellow Allied powers.  There’s a scene at the beginning of the 1944 Humphrey Bogart movie Passage to Marseille in which a squadron of American-built B-17s is overflying Germany on a night-time mission.  Searchlights reach up from the ground towards the planes, and the camera zooms in on one of the bombers as a searchlight beam runs over the fuselage; the beam reveals that the bomber carries the Croix de Lorraine insignia of the Free French forces, and at that moment the musical score of the film strikes up a few bars of Louis Ganne’s patriotic “Marche Lorraine.”  I don’t know if C.d.G. has ever seen that movie, but I’m sure he’d like it.  Two of Bogart’s co-stars are Michele Morgan (who really is French), and Claude Rains (who isn’t, but who famously played Captain Renault in Casablanca, another movie where the Croix de Lorraine pops up early in the film with suitable musical accompaniment.)  The DVD release of the film also includes a bonus mini-documentary on the FF.

[General 6 Stars]

@CWO:

It would be nice if the non-infantry French sculpts in Europe 1940 were unique French designs – but although that’s not the case, one point in their favour is that they add up to quite a bit of diversity if you combine the 1st edition and 2nd edition sculpts.  France’s 1940 equipment sculpts replicate the Soviets ones in each game; in the 1st edition, this gives France a mixture of Russian, American and British designs, while the 2nd edition replaces most of the American and British designs with Rusian ones and adds a new AAA unit in the form of a Russian-design sculpt.  And in a sense, that patchwork diversity conveys a suitable impression that the Free French (if they’re given the 1940 sculpts) are using equipment from their fellow Allied powers.  There’s a scene at the beginning of the 1944 Humphrey Bogart movie Passage to Marseille in which a squadron of American-built B-17s is overflying Germany on a night-time mission.  Searchlights reach up from the ground towards the planes, and the camera zooms in on one of the bombers as a searchlight beam runs over the fuselage; the beam reveals that the bomber carries the Croix de Lorraine insignia of the Free French forces, and at that moment the musical score of the film strikes up a few bars of Louis Ganne’s patriotic “Marche Lorraine.”  I don’t know if C.d.G. has ever seen that movie, but I’m sure he’d like it.  Two of Bogart’s co-stars are Michele Morgan (who really is French), and Claude Rains (who isn’t, but who famously played Captain Renault in Casablanca, another movie where the Croix de Lorraine pops up early in the film with suitable musical accompaniment.)  The DVD release of the film also includes a bonus mini-documentary on the FF.

Aaaaaaahhhhhhh  but only a true Frenchman would know that already !

[Midnight_Reaper]

@CWO:

It would be nice if the non-infantry French sculpts in Europe 1940 were unique French designs – but although that’s not the case, one point in their favour is that they add up to quite a bit of diversity if you combine the 1st edition and 2nd edition sculpts.  France’s 1940 equipment sculpts replicate the Soviets ones in each game; in the 1st edition, this gives France a mixture of Russian, American and British designs, while the 2nd edition replaces most of the American and British designs with Rusian ones and adds a new AAA unit in the form of a Russian-design sculpt.  And in a sense, that patchwork diversity conveys a suitable impression that the Free French (if they’re given the 1940 sculpts) are using equipment from their fellow Allied powers. {snip}

I agree with CWO Marc - that mixture of Russian, American, and British designs was what the E40.1 Russians were using as well. In both E40.1 and E40.2, the French pieces, sans Infantry, were a blue copy of whatever the Russians were using in that edition. The difference was that Hasbro/Wizards/AH “Russified” the Russians in the Second Coming of E40. This lead to the French pieces being strictly Russians in blue in E40.2.

All of that said, there are a couple of other options for depicting French units on a map of World War II.

One way is to go old school - buy a copy of The World at War (boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/3618/world-war) and you’ll receive in among the pieces in that game a set of pieces - infantry, tanks, fighters, bombers, a factory, an AAA, subs, transports, battleships, carriers - in a shade of blue paler than the French in E40. Are there many? No. Is it cheap? Depends on your online sales and auction (read: eBay) skills, as this isn’t really in print any more. But it is an option.

Another way is to invest in some patience. HBG is in the process of bringing out their own line-up of French units. This will be a “complete set” - everything you need to play E40 (except, curiously enough, AAA) in a shade of blue that is supposed to be closer to the E40 French. How close? Anybody who knows isn’t talking, so that’s a wild card. Still, once it becomes available (something I personally expect to happen either later this year or early next year), that will be a great option. It’s just not an option you can use today.

And now, you know some more about more French for your A&A.

-Midnight_Reaper

[CWO Marc]

@Midnight_Reaper:

The difference was that Hasbro/Wizards/AH “Russified” the Russians in the Second Coming of E40. This lead to the French pieces being strictly Russians in blue in E40.2.

Except for the aircraft carrier, which remains a British design for the USSR and France in E40.2.  Russia did gets its own carrier design in the 1941 game, but France isn’t a power in that game.

[Charles de Gaulle]

Great information.  I must admit that I have used the WW1 and WW2 sets interchangeably for France, Free French, and Vichy.  I also have some really light blue infantry units from another game (Risk: Battlefield Rogue; it was a very poorly-made game, but there was a time when people bought it just for its sculpts) that I sometimes use.

I will definitely take a look at the movie you referred to Marc.  Golden Age of Cinema + WW2 + France = popcorn.

You guys are aware that Charles de Gaulle is a facade that I only use here and when I’m literally playing as France, right?  I’m an American through and through.  :-D

[General 6 Stars]

@Charles:

Great information.  I must admit that I have used the WW1 and WW2 sets interchangeably for France, Free French, and Vichy.  I also have some really light blue infantry units from another game (Risk: Battlefield Rogue; it was a very poorly-made game, but there was a time when people bought it just for its sculpts) that I sometimes use.

I will definitely take a look at the movie you referred to Marc.  Golden Age of Cinema + WW2 + France = popcorn.

You guys are aware that Charles de Gaulle is a facade that I only use here and when I’m literally playing as France, right?  I’m an American through and through.   :-D

Hhhhhmmmm I may need some DNA proof.

[Charles de Gaulle]

First you insult the Free French and now you question my honor?!

You!

You…

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=uBs06ZXtMzo