Russian Fighters

[Jennifer]

The worry is that I really don’t think you can wait until R2 and R3 to get two fighters.  By then, it may be too late.

[ajgundam5]

I’ve always wanted to try buying a Fig as Russia but never tried it yet

[666]

Gotta love the russian fgt purchase! super flexible for attacks and defends wonderfully if needed late in the game.

Yes it costs more than armor but rather than burn armor reclaiming land it gets to fly safely back and defend at 4. You gotta do it!

It is a R2 or later purchase for my style of allied play.

[DarthMaximus]

I perfer armor over another ftr for Russia.

IMO, you shouldn’t have too much problem trading, you really don’t have to trade Belo (if the choice is Belo vs. Ukr/Kar) or Kar (if UK can do it for you), and worst case you can always send 2 inf vs. 1 inf (retreat if go bad), or 3 inf vs. 1 inf on the territory that you want to conquer but it won’t kill you if you have to retreat, again usually Belo or Kar.

It is foolish to think that Russia will just randomly trade with armor and leave 1-2 exposed, however, if Russia has 10, 12, 14+ they can certainly expose their art since they won’t help on Def (might as well use on Off), and then maybe you can afford to throw an armor out there later (rd 4 or later) since UK and US should be arriving.

I do like to go ftr heavy with both UK and US, that is where I get the extra 4’s, let the other Allies pay the 10 while Russia focuses on the ground.

My concern about an early Russian ftr purchase is, yeah it may help to trade 3 ter a little more safely, but what if Germany isn’t interested in trading and moves heavy to Ukr.  In order to push them out, not only are you down 1 unit (2 arm vs. 1 ftr) but you’ll likely have to expose your 3 ftrs to AA fire, and should one get shot down you’re now down two units in the attack.  A potentional winnable able battle could turn into a disaster real quick.

Now, regardless of whether the AA gun hits, this is a move (and a chance) I’ll likely make as Germany and force the Russian player to either concede Ukr to me or risk his Russian army and new 10 ipc purchase to AA-fire and a German counter attack early in the game, before the UK and US can really get going.  Whereas if they had 2 armor I’d be more worried about a strafe and be more likely to just hold back.  It may be a fine line between 2 aa shots vs. 3 and 2 more units vs. 1, so the German move may be inevitable, but as Russia I feel a bit more comfortable with the arm, and as Germany a bit more aggressive if Russia goes ftr.

[trihero]

I like keeping Russia limited to inf/art, with some tanks when I predict a big push in the next turn.  Fighters just aren’t good for pushing since they can’t defend a territory you just knocked out, and you have no turn in between for the allies to reinforce your position since Germany is right after.

[Jennifer]

But they can defend a territory America or England knocked out.

Favorite play of mine is to take with England, reinforce with America and put 3 or 4 Russian fighters in to really make an attack painful on Germany.

Besides, British fighters do a better job protecting Moscow then Russian fighters!

[Romulus]

@trihero:

I like keeping Russia limited to inf/art, with some tanks when I predict a big push in the next turn.  Fighters just aren’t good for pushing since they can’t defend a territory you just knocked out, and you have no turn in between for the allies to reinforce your position since Germany is right after.

Good point!
Tanks seems a better bargain for Russia. For the same IPC they have more unit punch more unit counter, and they may defend in territory just conquered.

Also Russian tanks may be used to reinforce UK conquered territory in order to make hard a German counterattack (and for the same IPC they make more harder the counterattack). I agree that British fighters are better at defend Moscow than Russia fighters.
I also agree that they give more flexibility for trading territories.
However, I am still undecided and usually I never buy them.

[Jennifer]

I used to think the same about Russian armor.  Then I noticed my armor did nothing but protect Caucasus and threaten Germans.  They never did anything.  Well, not until Russia fell and they were forced to actually defend some ground.

[trihero]

Favorite play of mine is to take with England, reinforce with America and put 3 or 4 Russian fighters in to really make an attack painful on Germany.

Besides, British fighters do a better job protecting Moscow then Russian fighters!

Um, how about let the Russian fighters stay on Moscow so they can trade with Japan if need be (likely) and have US fighters reniforce English invasions? The US are going to have more money to spare the fighters O_o

I used to think the same about Russian armor.  Then I noticed my armor did nothing but protect Caucasus and threaten Germans.  They never did anything.  Well, not until Russia fell and they were forced to actually defend some ground.

For once in what seems like I while I agree with you my dear =P  :mrgreen: Tanks don’t seem to do much early on, that’s why I keep it to art to use as a poor man’s tank to trade territories.

[Romulus]

I usually loss 2-3 tanks first two turns!  :-D
So my thanks atre not sitting pointless in Caucasus, they usually fight and die in Ukraine.
I try to buy 1 art and/or 1 tanks  every turn, if possible. As Trihero said art is the poorman unit for trading territory! :)

So at goes to the German front, tanks goes to the Japanese front and fightere… where they are more needed!

[a44bigdog]

R1 Purchase 1 FGT, 2 ARM, 1 ART. Attack Bellorus with 3 INF 2 FGT. Attack W.Russia with 2 Archangel INF, Moscow INF, Both ART, and Moscow and Karelia ARM. Caucasus troops stay put and fighters land there. If necessary transfer some INF from Caucasus to W. Russia for defense. The 2 INF that can step forward into the Caucasus where placement is made. This gives Russia 28 IPCs for R2 and should be enough defense to keep Germany at bay or make things VERY costly.

R2 Purchase 1 FGT 6 INF. From this point on I start to harass Germany by taking what I can with INF and FGT. I continue to purchase 1 FGT and INF until R4 and maintain trading territories with Germany with Infantry only. At 6 fighters this gives 2 fighters per territory of the 3 normally in dispute. From this point more ARM can begin to be purchased although generally around this time I have already started a drive toward Berlin.

Russia begins the game with a fair amount of hardware and a ton of infantry. Russia CANNOT afford to trade hardware with Germany. I do not place Russian tanks on the frontline unless I am sure they will not be destroyed which is generally a drive to Berlin. The purpose of this drive is not to take Berlin but kill Germans. Russia is quite happy with no troops between Moscow and Berlin and Germany is not. Russia does not have to take Germany, just hold out until help arrives for the kill. Germany on the other hand basically HAS to take Moscow and before help can arrive.

[trihero]

I have to say I’ve changed my mind since I posted in this thread, I do like buying 1 fighter immediately with Russia, then I just keep slamming out infantry. The 1 fighter you purchase pays for itself in a few rounds of trading; it’s a better option than throwing an art away or throwing extra infantry away. Plus, when it comes down to trading 2 territories with Germany, then you can use the 3rd fighter to trade something with the Japanese.

R2 Purchase 1 FGT 6 INF. From this point on I start to harass Germany by taking what I can with INF and FGT. I continue to purchase 1 FGT and INF until R4 and maintain trading territories with Germany with Infantry only. At 6 fighters this gives 2 fighters per territory of the 3 normally in dispute. From this point more ARM can begin to be purchased although generally around this time I have already started a drive toward Berlin.

I think this is a little bit overboard. While you can trade pretty easy with 2 fighters per territory, purchasing 4 fighters also leaves you with very little true pushing power. I’d find it hard to push to Berlin when I’m 10 infantry short (buying 3 more fighters than a sane man would).

Germany on the other hand basically HAS to take Moscow and before help can arrive.

Hmm, usually Japan takes Moscow, while Germany turtles up and annoys the Allies.

[Jennifer]

I usually find that England does a good job of keeping Karelia liberated so that Russia only needs to trade Ukraine and Belorussia for a LONG time.

[trihero]

Well the way you seem to play it, UK is in Norway by round 5, so liberating Karelia on Round 6?

[Jennifer]

Again, this was a KJF test.  This is not my normal modus operandi.

Normally, I have UK in Norway on Round 2 and in Karelia on Round 3.  Until then, Russia just has to liberate all by themselves.  Perfectly capable of doing so.

[Guest]

I have come to really like either an R1 or R2 FIG purchase.  3 FIGs to trade 3 territories along the German front…

[a44bigdog]

To demonstrate the flexibility of buying 1 fighter every round with Russia I took a few notes on their kills from my last F-T-F game. Keep in mind this is in addition to the normal trade moves with Germany.

Destroyed: 1 German BB, 1 German Transport, 2 German subs, 2 Japanese transports.

Losses: 3 Fighters (all to transports btw)

Thats 64 IPCs of hardware for 30 spent. Also the Russian airforce twice defended an American IC in Sinkiang. Rather hard to do all that with tanks or infantry.

[trihero]

In other words, that’s 30 IPCs spent to kill 0 IPCs spent, since the German navy and Japanese transports were already on the board to start with. Does that still sound good to you? What I hate when people start using IPC values is that they don’t really understand how to make it relevant. There is a very big difference between spending IPCs to take out existing IPCs versus spending IPCs to take out the other guy’s spent IPCs.

[a44bigdog]

Only the German  TRN and BB was original and I was more than happy to stop bombardment and troop delivery from Italy. Since Russia starts with 2 fighters by your logic I only lost a dollar. I don’t count the its there so it don’t cost argument. Yes you don’t buy those units at the start but if you want them once they are gone they have to be purchased.

Bottom line for me I think having a minimum of 6 fighters with Russia is the way to get the most bang for the buck.

[Guest]

For everyone who dismisses the value of the units your start the game with…

I challenge you to a game where the board starts empty and each nation begins with a build based on their initial income!

I’ll take the Allies  :-D