End game play…

[Der Kuenstler]

The “generalship tracker” sounds great Marc! If only there were some simple way to implement it. One major attribute that a great general with inferior forces has is to take advantage of better intelligence by fainting here, attacking there, etc. But there is no fog of war in this game so it makes it difficult.

At the start of an Axis and Allies game there is a great, almost euphoric, feeling of anticipation for everyone around the table. “Who’s going to win this thing?”  Also confidence “No one can defeat my plan this time!” I have noticed when we get together for a new game the guys are all gung ho - some even dressing head to toe in a uniform of their country. By round 4 or so, the enthusiasm wanes as the winning side begins to say “I think we’ve got this.” And the other side starts to lose hope. The rush of having six guys all looking at the map and interacting, talking smack and laughing it up, is really powerful. There is a sense of oneness - a group of guys forgetting life’s troubles for a while and enjoying the same thing together. This is almost unheard of nowadays - a time where almost everyone has chosen to isolate themselves to a smart phone or some other electronic device rather than interact with those around them.

At some point in time the game becomes decided and the oneness fades - you have cheerful winners on one side and gloomy losers on the other. The feeling of a whole group enjoying and focusing on the table is so strong that I doubt if we would ever continue a game if one guy was totally knocked out.

An incentive would have to be so strong that the winning side would stay focused on performing an efficient “coup des gras” while the losing side would focus on survival though defeat is a given. I’m not sure that there is such an incentive out there.

[General 6 Stars]

@Der:

The “generalship tracker” sounds great Marc! If only there were some simple way to implement it. One major attribute that a great general with inferior forces has is to take advantage of better intelligence by fainting here, attacking there, etc. But there is no fog of war in this game so it makes it difficult.

At the start of an Axis and Allies game there is a great, almost euphoric, feeling of anticipation for everyone around the table. “Who’s going to win this thing?”  Also confidence “No one can defeat my plan this time!” I have noticed when we get together for a new game the guys are all gung ho - some even dressing head to toe in a uniform of their country. By round 4 or so, the enthusiasm wanes as the winning side begins to say “I think we’ve got this.” And the other side starts to lose hope. The rush of having six guys all looking at the map and interacting, talking smack and laughing it up, is really powerful. There is a sense of oneness - a group of guys forgetting life’s troubles for a while and enjoying the same thing together. This is almost unheard of nowadays - a time where almost everyone has chosen to isolate themselves to a smart phone or some other electronic device rather than interact with those around them.

At some point in time the game becomes decided and the oneness fades - you have cheerful winners on one side and gloomy losers on the other. The feeling of a whole group enjoying and focusing on the table is so strong that I doubt if we would ever continue a game if one guy was totally knocked out.

An incentive would have to be so strong that the winning side would stay focused on performing an efficient “coup des gras” while the losing side would focus on survival though defeat is a given. I’m not sure that there is such an incentive out there.

So true Der !!!  Just the look on the losers faces after you just defeated some of the best players is rewarding enough also.

The only incentive out there to play until the end is to pay your players to play !  :-D :-D

[baron Münchhausen]

“coup des gras”
it is “coup de grace”. with “^” on top of “a”

You wrote “fat strike” instead of “mercy blow”.
:-D

[Argothair]

I strongly agree with Der Keunstler.

CWO Marc, I do like your idea about generalship, although I can’t think of any way to track it without a computer. With a computer, you could use the following formula:

Log_2 (TUV of units that you battled over the course of a full round) * log_2 (Change in your TUV + cash) / (TUV of your units).

The idea is to measure how good the results you achieved were in the context of (a) How much you had to work with, and (b) How courageously you addressed the enemy’s main forces, rather than just leaving them all for an ally to deal with. E.g. if Britain sends it’s whole air force to take Morocco at a profit while leaving the German army intact and ready to crush Moscow, Britain’s generalship score would be smaller than if they engaged the Germans in the Baltic States for a small loss.

Every turn, every country would collect a small boost to its cumulative general score, but if you have a lousy turn, the boost could be tiny, like only 0.2 general points instead of 5 general points.

[CWO Marc]

@Argothair:

CWO Marc, I do like your idea about generalship, although I can’t think of any way to track it without a computer.

I haven’t thought about the specifics of how the concept would work in practice.  I first wanted to see how the concept itself flew, since there wouldn’t be much point of putting a lot of work into a operationalizing concept that wasn’t attracting much interest in the first place.

If it were to be operationalized, however, I’d hope to find something that’s simple and straightforward, which does not involve complex mathematical formulas and which does not require a computer. Nothing more than a couple of quick operations on a simple calculator, ideally.  I don’t know if that’s achievable, but that would be my preference.  Should I give this some thought to see if I can come up with something that would work along those lines?

[Young Grasshopper]

These are all very creative and interesting ideas, however… getting the average A&A player to accept a house rule victory condition of the magnitude you’re suggesting is difficult at best (no matter how pretty the charts look).

[Der Kuenstler]

@Baron:

“coup des gras”
it is “coup de grace”. with “^” on top of “a”

Gee, I even spell checked it first…

[baron Münchhausen]

@Der:

@Baron:

“coup des gras”
it is “coup de grace”. with “^” on top of “a”

Gee, I even spell checked it first…

Nonetheless it help me explained my actual condition (due to lack of exercice), in the last months I got a “fat strike”… or “coup de gras”

:-D

[Black_Elk]

Any ideas relating to victory conditions will be good for the HR list.

If we can formalize them, then I’ll drop the links in the same section, so we can keep track of what’s out there.
I put one in the HR List sticky already, for the Victory Objectives/Tokens idea that YG has proposed, with a link to that thread. Since YG has locked up, presumably it will house whatever rules are current, or at least make a ref for now.

Maybe we can do the same with some of those charts? Or with the kind of generalship scheme CWOMarc suggested?

Global clearly needs some alternative Victory Conditions

[Der Kuenstler]

@CWO:

Should I give this some thought to see if I can come up with something that would work along those lines?

I would be interested in it  - if the answer is simple enough…overcomplication kills most house rules for me…