Transporter question

[mrcunego]

Hi all
If UK uses america’s transporters how often can it be used?
In the rulebook it states:
Transporting Multinational Forces: Transports belonging to a friendly power can load and offload your land units, as long as both powers are at war. This is a three-step process:
1. You load your land units aboard the friendly
transport on your turn.
2. The transport’s controller moves it (or not) on
that player’s turn.
3. You offload your land units on your next turn.

My question is. In a turn where you offload your UK units in the combat movement phase from some US transporters would you be able to start the three-step process again in the NCM phase and load UK units onboard for deployment next turn?
Thanks
/MrCunego

[Kreuzfeld]

Those uk troops have been in combat. they have no NCM. also

also. on the rules for NCM

“Transports can move to friendly coastal territories
and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved,
offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat
Move or Conduct Combat phase.”

Those us transported have certainly offloaded during the combatmove.

[mrcunego]

Thanks
I meant if new UK troops could load onto the transporters.

In the scanerio it isn’t the US transporters that do any NCM. They dont ‘move to friendly coastal territories AND load’. They just stand there because it isn’t their turn. It’s the UK troops that do the NCM movement.

Best regards
MrCunego

[Kreuzfeld]

In the scenario, the US transports do a NCM. Loading troops is a NCM as defined in the rules. And as the rules i quoted says, you can’t load onto a transport in the NCM when it has unloaded in the combat move.

“Transports can move to friendly coastal territories
and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved,
offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat
Move or Conduct Combat phase.”

So, those US transports have unloaded in the UK combat move. Therefore they can’t load during the UK NCM

[Private-Panic]

Kreuzfeld has it right mrcunego

[Panther]

To be nit-picking precise it is not the US transport that (actively) offloads UK units during UK’s turn. When it is UK’s turn, US units can’t do anything.
In fact it is the UK’s player who offloads his UK units from an US transport, as stated in the rules:

@rulebook:

Transporting Multinational Forces:
Transports belonging to a friendly power
can load and offload your land units, as
long as both powers are at war. This is a
three-step process:
1. You load your land units aboard the
friendly transport on your turn.
2. The transport’s owner moves it (or not) on
that power’s turn.
3. You offload your land units on your next
turn.

However, those UK land units may be loaded back onto those US transports on the next UK turn.

[Kreuzfeld]

I don’t hate nit-picking. however your nitpicking here is irrelevant and stupid.

You are really complaining that I said that the Unit unloads, instead of the player unloads.

Next time someone say “Tanks can move 2”, you should answer “No,!!! WRONG!!! the player that owns the tank can move the tank 2 spaces”

I never said that the US player unloads from the US transport. I only said that the transport has unloaded.

[Panther]

@Kreuzfeld:

I don’t hate nit-picking. however your nitpicking here is irrelevant and stupid.

You are really complaining that I said that the Unit unloads, instead of the player unloads.

Next time someone say “Tanks can move 2”, you should answer “No,!!! WRONG!!! the player that owns the tank can move the tank 2 spaces”

I never said that the US player unloads from the US transport. I only said that the transport has unloaded.

No reason to become that insulting, I think!

I just wanted to point out that the US transport does not have an active part in either the UK’s combat move or UK’s noncombat move. That’s all.

These were your words:
@Kreuzfeld:

In the scenario, the US transports do a NCM….

… and a US transport can’t do an NCM when it is UK’s turn!

[mrcunego]

I’ve always played it like Kreuzfeld states. I just got a question in a game where I could find the final proof of it in the rules.

It seems that the paragraph you use, Kreuzfeld, is focused on the movement of the transporter and not the loading/unloading by it self. If the “and” was replaced by an “or” then I would get it loud and clear. But now it stands as if it is the movement combined with loading/unloading that is restricted and not the loading/unloading by it self. The nit-picking continues  :-D and this is not meant to be insultning or otherwise trolling.

“Transports can move to friendly coastal territories
and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved,
offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat
Move or Conduct Combat phase.”

[Kreuzfeld]

@mrcunego:

I’ve always played it like Kreuzfeld states. I just got a question in a game where I could find the final proof of it in the rules.

It seems that the paragraph you use, Kreuzfeld, is focused on the movement of the transporter and not the loading/unloading by it self. If the “and” was replaced by an “or” then I would get it loud and clear. But now it stands as if it is the movement combined with loading/unloading that is restricted and not the loading/unloading by it self. The nit-picking continues  :-D and this is not meant to be insultning or otherwise trolling.

“Transports can move to friendly coastal territories
and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved,
offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat
Move or Conduct Combat phase.”

I just quoted the noncombat move rules.

in the “how to use transport” rules, it says that you can’t unload a transport, and then load it again during the same phase. This rule says that if you have used it in an earlier phase, you can’t use it in the NCM phase

The english here is prettly clear.
1.  The transport can move and load or unload cargo unless
2. they loaded, offloaded or were involved in combat durint the combat move or conduct combat phase.

So, the can do anything in part 1, as long as they didn’t do anything of part 2.

How the transport does these actions is covered in a different part of the rules.

P@nter. FFS, what do you mean by an active part?? If the uk player unloads from the US transporter, then that transporter has unloaded units during UK turn.  Activity has nothing to do with it. The rules do not define acive units anywhere, only active players (ie, the player with the right to make a desicion about how to use a units ability).

You are just inventing a term, and then complain that some imaginary use of that term has not been respected-

[Panther]

@Kreuzfeld:

P@nter. FFS, what do you mean by an active part?? If the uk player unloads from the US transporter, then that transporter has unloaded units during UK turn.  Activity has nothing to do with it. The rules do not define acive units anywhere, only active players (ie, the player with the right to make a desicion about how to use a units ability).

You are just inventing a term, and then complain that some imaginary use of that term has not been respected-

So the insult is followed by a false accusation. Nice guy!
I am not inventing anything. “Active” is a commonly used term, IMHO. No need to define rules for it.
You said that the US transports did a NCM (what would be active). I said they can’t NCM when it is UK’s turn. That’s all.

Don’t make more of it…

[mrcunego]

I get a little confused.
@P@nther If the US transport by default does not do any NCM in a UK turn. Why should they be restricted by a NCM rule?

[Panther]

@mrcunego:

I get a little confused.
@P@nther If the US transport by default does not do any NCM in a UK turn. Why should they be restricted by a NCM rule?

Well, it has been the UK who unloaded the units from those transports during their Combat Move - this makes those transports unloadable for the rest of UK’s turn (no matter to which nation the used transports belong, btw.).

I never said the quote was wrong - it’s just not a result of a US NCM during UK’s turn , but the result of UK’s combat move that has the said consequences in UK’s noncombat move.

Edit Addition:

In other words:
When it comes to UK’s noncobat move, the perspective is on UK’s units. You will ask yourself “Where can I go with my UK land units, that have not moved before?”. When it comes to think about boarding them to a transport, you will be able to place them on all transports (own or friendly) that have not been involved in UK’s turn before. You will not be able to use that said US transports because you have unloaded from them before.

Edit: Another addition:

So to avoid the discussed confusion on UK’s turn better say

“Unload UK’s units from a (US) transport” instead of “US transport offloads” … this is why my above quote from the rulebook (concerning Transporting Multinational Forces) promotes the player (“You offload your land units”).

[mrcunego]

Thanks.
/mrcunego

[Kreuzfeld]

I am sorry I overreacted to what I interpeted as mean spirited nit-picking. I can see now that it wasnt.

[Panther]

@Kreuzfeld:

I am sorry I overreacted to what I interpeted as mean spirited nit-picking. I can see now that it wasnt.

No hard feelings, I appreciate your apology.

[simon33]

One of the neat tricks is that a different power can load an allied transport in the same round as the transport unloaded. So USA can assault Normandy from SZ110 and UK can load troops into the US TT which assaulted it on the same round. It can also be useful for Germany loading into Italian TTs after assaulting Greece.

[mrcunego]

i just used the “trick” Simon33 describes outside englad where US transports first did a unloading and than UK forces loaded for a next turn unload. The fleet is quit safe due to a lot of carriers and scramblers.
/mrcunego

[taamvan]

the rules ensure that the TTs cant really do double duty that way (you can use them twice but its not faster) though it is fun to imagine bringing along an extra transport during the US cross to load up those brave, brave, no-combined arms Frenchies from North Africa.  Or brits.  The rules just make it too choppy to implement very well.

A much better exploit is

flying into the attack with fighters u moved 4
landing them planes on an allied carrier, then it moves 3
then it gets attacked, you help defend, it blows up, you move 1 more

you moved 8 spaces with a fighter and fought twice in 1 turn lol