Preferred option to stall Japanese expansion.

I’ve only played a few games - but what I’ve found is that the Japanese are pretty much unstoppable!

Efforts to stall the Japanese with a IC in India seem to be fairly successful if my nook and by crook and by some lucky Rnd 1 dice you can prevent India falling Rnd 2.

I’ve tried building a US fleet (subs ahoy!) and ended up with 13 subs, 3 cruisers, 3 destroyers, and AC and 2 Ftrs and a transport.

By this point the Japanese were virtually in Moscow and had matched my sub buys with about 9 destroyers. They retreated to Formosa SZ and simply kept guard over the Asian mainland. I wonder if I also had built an effective India IC whether the pressure might have overwhelmed the Japanese - but as it was Russia and the UK had their hands full with Germany - and had received virtually no US support…

Can some of the more seasoned players offer feedback about stopping the Japanese with a Pacific strategy? Is it possible without losing Russia to the Germans?

I believe if you are going KGF you must keep Japan honest in the Pacific.  By using a small US fleet with a couple transports and infantry you can hopefully derail the Japanese attack.  If they ingore you Japan can be in a heap of trouble quickly.  I just keep threatening to take back some islands and it is usually enough to derail the Japanese for a couple rounds while they build extra fleets to hold off yours.  Not perfect by any means but I have found it to be usefull.  There MUST be a show of some force by the US in the Pacific or Japan will walk all over Russia.

I have to agree that Japan is too big to take on directly, so much like in the other versions of A&A, we attempt to take Germany down fast (a full commitment of resources).

That said, I have tinkered with sending some Russian troops to China (just a few, enough to bog Japan down in China) and even the British contingent in India can be sent to China as well. I have had some success with such a strat (hard to call it a strat, as it is more of a wrinkle in an overall campaign).

There is much to defend whenit comes to slowing Godzilla.  By round 2, she’s usually in the mid 50s, and over 60 from round 3 onward.  That’s a lot to slow.

I prefer retreating the Russian inf from out east.  If possible, a few resources in China’s last stand of Chinghai can go a long way to helping hold novosibirsk and kazahk.

If you can, slowing Australia/India/s fall to J3 helps.  Using the UK DD in the pacific to hold australia one more round is a worthy sacrafice in my eyes (moving to new guinea to keep the philipine forces from moving south)

I prefer to take the inf and art and sail east.  It is generally a safe move and in a long game, that extra transport can come in handy.

I do not really see much benefit to having a UK transport mixed in with the US pacific fleet.  UK goes right after japan, and could only grab the island(s) that US would be taking any ways to support the UK transport.

I know many do not like to let Russia lose their $5 NO for no other troops on russian soil, but several US/UK ftrs really help the Russia ground units slow a stack of Japanese ground units.  This is more of a mid-game move once the allies have established an Atlantic fleet.

However, when Japan decides it wants to do something, it can be very hard to stop her!
Consider her strong starting air force and quick income acceleration into the $60’s….
a few bombers in round 3 or 4 really projects her power.

My last game I tried implementing the Larry Harris suggestion of no new complexes on islands smaller than Australia.  That alone made a huge difference in stunting Japan (although I was playing '42).  Should make a difference in '41 as well.  I mean, it’s a no brainer to put an IC on East Indies, and it’s also ridiculous that 4 units a turn could be produced there (hence the rule).  The IPC value is to reflect the rich natural resources in Borneo and East Indies, not production capacity.  I mean, double Karelia’s capacity?

I am not a history expert, but it was my understanding that early in the war, most of the US resources went into helping out in europe/the atlantic.  Then with Operation Torch, the african landings.

I believe that the fact that we could read the Japanese codes / our intelligence gave the US navy some gains they would not normally have had.  Face it, Midway was a big part luck and a big part the fact that we knew Japan was coming after Midway to take it.  After that battle, the IJN never really had any offensive momenteum from that point forward in the war.  Couple that with the battle in the solomons/guadalcanal and US was able to have the upper and on Japan till the end of the war.

What does that mean to the game?  Not much really.  The game is about RE-WRITING history, not repeating it.  I was speaking to the post by Canuck:

@Canuck12:

Perhaps what I’m getting at is that if we were to play out the pacific theatre as close to history as we could, the United States would get annihilated, and would be hard pressed to open up a western front against the Germans.

The problem is that the USA doesn’t get much reward for a substantial investment against the Japanese.  It is also very hard, if not impossible to team up on Japan.  UK pacific forces are decimated on J1, and pretty much wiped out by J2, even India.  Sure UK can throw some resources into an IC in India or australia, but those are short term road blocks that Japan will overcome with only a 1 or 2 turn delay…. meanwhile Germany is goose stepping into Stalingrad or Lenningrad on their way to Moscow.

I don’t know if the OP was limiting the discussion to current rules (optional rules included).  There have been some good ideas about fixing the pacific theatre on these boards.

I find just keeping what you have left in SZ 56 is usually enough to prevent the fall of your islands for at least a few rounds.  Thing is, Japan has bigger fish to fry with their navy so they are loathe to move it to take worthless (to them) islands just to take a NO from America.  They will if all they need is 1 infantry, 1 transport (or add an armor if they are defended still).

I do like the idea of IC + American fighters in Australia, but with the nerf to Improved Factories, it’s not really worth it either. (You can’t get it to 4 production, so why bother?)

@Cmdr:

I find just keeping what you have left in SZ 56 is usually enough to prevent the fall of your islands for at least a few rounds.  Thing is, Japan has bigger fish to fry with their navy so they are loathe to move it to take worthless (to them) islands just to take a NO from America.  They will if all they need is 1 infantry, 1 transport (or add an armor if they are defended still).

I do like the idea of IC + American fighters in Australia, but with the nerf to Improved Factories, it’s not really worth it either. (You can’t get it to 4 production, so why bother?)

Cmdr, I have always liked the idea of the IC in Australia but have not really put it to the test, fairly.  I think an AC with a Cruiser to start (landing any fighters on the carrier you can) followed by a Destroyer and Transport (replacing allied fighter with your own (UK) asap) could really wreak havoc for the Japanese.  Especially if you back it with some US fleet.  Have you tried this?  Has anyone tried this?  And if so, how did it work out?  This could really stall the Japanese if you could put it together.

Regards,
Captain Crunch

I would worry more about getting the continent secured FIRST before investing in a UK navy.
UK buys the building, then ground units.

USA can provide the ftr cover (ftrs built in SZ56 on a carrier make it to australia)

If Aussie hasn’t fallen to japan by round 4 or so, then maybe you might try to invest in some navy.

I have held australia till J4 with the above US support (and a slightly out of position Japan due to the r1 purchased russian bomber taking out a jap transport on R2 in East Indies)
Then these units made it to India to help hold THAT until J5.

It’s nice if you can get it to work.  I think it’s much more doable if Japan goes to take the Philipines on J1: India is not as pressured and Australia can be blocked/held J2 with the UK DD.

@axis_roll:

The problem is that the USA doesn’t get much reward for a substantial investment against the Japanese.  It is also very hard, if not impossible to team up on Japan.  UK pacific forces are decimated on J1, and pretty much wiped out by J2, even India.  Sure UK can throw some resources into an IC in India or australia, but those are short term road blocks that Japan will overcome with only a 1 or 2 turn delay…. meanwhile Germany is goose stepping into Stalingrad or Lenningrad on their way to Moscow.

An IC in India can work very effectively if you do it right. If you really want to have fun you can even build 2 ICs on UK1.  8-) Axis doesn’t know what to do if you pull that on them. I literally rolled over an experienced opponent when I showed him something he hadn’t seen before. He was so taken off his game he made two massive coin flip attacks (50 % chance of success) and lost both of them. He surrendered turn 3 because his situation was pretty much helpless.

@WOPR:

@axis_roll:

The problem is that the USA doesn’t get much reward for a substantial investment against the Japanese.  It is also very hard, if not impossible to team up on Japan.  UK pacific forces are decimated on J1, and pretty much wiped out by J2, even India.  Sure UK can throw some resources into an IC in India or australia, but those are short term road blocks that Japan will overcome with only a 1 or 2 turn delay…. meanwhile Germany is goose stepping into Stalingrad or Lenningrad on their way to Moscow.

An IC in India can work very effectively if you do it right. If you really want to have fun you can even build 2 ICs on UK1.  8-) Axis doesn’t know what to do if you pull that on them. I literally rolled over an experienced opponent when I showed him something he hadn’t seen before. He was so taken off his game he made two massive coin flip attacks (50 % chance of success) and lost both of them. He surrendered turn 3 because his situation was pretty much helpless.

WOPR can you provide more details?  It’s hard to imagine that a factory in India would be that much of a trouble to Japan.

@Captain:

@Cmdr:

I find just keeping what you have left in SZ 56 is usually enough to prevent the fall of your islands for at least a few rounds.  Thing is, Japan has bigger fish to fry with their navy so they are loathe to move it to take worthless (to them) islands just to take a NO from America.  They will if all they need is 1 infantry, 1 transport (or add an armor if they are defended still).

I do like the idea of IC + American fighters in Australia, but with the nerf to Improved Factories, it’s not really worth it either. (You can’t get it to 4 production, so why bother?)

Cmdr, I have always liked the idea of the IC in Australia but have not really put it to the test, fairly.  I think an AC with a Cruiser to start (landing any fighters on the carrier you can) followed by a Destroyer and Transport (replacing allied fighter with your own (UK) asap) could really wreak havoc for the Japanese.  Especially if you back it with some US fleet.  Have you tried this?  Has anyone tried this?  And if so, how did it work out?  This could really stall the Japanese if you could put it together.

Regards,
Captain Crunch

The British Transport is enough to cause headaches for Japan, if you want my honest opinion.

England moves in and takes territory, America follows up with a fleet to defend the British transport and lands bombers and planes on the island to threaten the Japanese fleet/bomb Tokyo.

The problem I have with the factory in Australia (in this incarnation) revolves around the nerf to Improved Factories.  If you don’t play with the house rule (and all rules not printed in the box are HOUSE RULES, I don’t care if Larry gave birth to them in the middle of the night after 14 hours of hard labor, they are still HOUSE RULES) that improved factories only apply to territories worth 3 IPC or more, than it’s a great place for a factory!  (Cause you can have 4 builds there per round.  7 if you also put one on New Zealand, if it comes too it.)

Something i was trying for a while is to fly US bombers and fighters to Stanovj and Strat Bomb Japan from there.  It’s a big investment for the Japanese to throw 7 or 8 USSR inf + 2 US ftrs out of there.  You can if you can afford it move 1 or 2 USSR arm there and/or fly the UK ftr’s there too.

It’s always worth remembering that the US bombers can get there - in case the Japanese forget and mistakenly drop a couple of transports in their waters J1.

@Twigley:

It’s always worth remembering that the US bombers can get there - in case the Japanese forget and mistakenly drop a couple of transports in their waters J1.

My buddy and I have both done this….ONCE…on J1.  But never again  :-D

yea, that is a mistake one not soon forgets!

Not sure how effectively you can SBR Japan from Stanovoj.  Not saying it is effective or ineffective, saying I’m not sure how effective it is! (some people like axis_roll will assume because I said “not sure how effective…” I mean completely ineffective and go off the deep end trying to prove me wrong, hence the clarification!)

I’d say it is a pretty heavy investment from what you are describing.

21-24 IPC in Russian Infantry

• 20 IPC in British Fighters
• 20 IPC in American Fighters
• 24 IPC in American Bombers
• 12 IPC in British Bombers (?)

That’s 88 IPC (if you dont bring the British Bomber) of units tied up to do 3.5 IPC damage per bomber on average. (10-11 Dmg a round expected.)

Just to put some perspective on it.  Again, I am NOT saying this is a GOOD or a BAD idea, I am only attempting to investigate further.

Hmmm, this has me thinking.  If I get the Axis in our next game (we draw markers every time) I just might try the SBR on Japan from Russia (with US/UK bombers) coupled with a show of US coming after Japan from the West coast.  This would really force Japan to pull their fleet home to help protect since their building would be limited.  This should relieve some pressure from Africa/Australia/India allowing UK to keep some IPC’s for 2/3 extra rounds.  UK might be able to buy an India IC on UK2/3 and hold it if Japan pulls back.  Any thoughts, problems with this?

Regards,
Captain Crunch

@Cmdr:

yea, that is a mistake one not soon forgets!

Not sure how effectively you can SBR Japan from Stanovoj.  Not saying it is effective or ineffective, saying I’m not sure how effective it is! (some people like axis_roll will assume because I said “not sure how effective…” I mean completely ineffective and go off the deep end trying to prove me wrong, hence the clarification!)

I’d say it is a pretty heavy investment from what you are describing.

21-24 IPC in Russian Infantry

• 20 IPC in British Fighters
• 20 IPC in American Fighters
• 24 IPC in American Bombers
• 12 IPC in British Bombers (?)

That’s 88 IPC (if you dont bring the British Bomber) of units tied up to do 3.5 IPC damage per bomber on average. (10-11 Dmg a round expected.)

Just to put some perspective on it.  Again, I am NOT saying this is a GOOD or a BAD idea, I am only attempting to investigate further.

Most of the units are starting units, so do not need to be purchased.  Sounds intriguing, falconrider.  Jen, I don’t think it’s about just bombing the factory.  With all those planes right there, it will be trickier for Japan to build fleet, or the fleet might have to stay home.  Also, as he pointed out, if Japan tries to take out that nice little stack it would be costly.  The topic is stalling Japanese expansion, and this idea appears to have some merit.